<p>My sons’ school only offers APs jr and sr years, and they are only open to students who receive grades of A in prior year’s non-AP class(es). It is a very grade-deflated private (well-known to be rigorous). In the school profile I learned that for most APs (with some downward variation in the hardest) approx 7% receive A, 11% get A- ,18% get B+, 24% get B, with 38% getting B- or lower. Harsh grading in light of the fact that 90% of these kids receive 5 or 4 on the AP exams each year. Parents can only huddle together and hope college adcoms really really know how hard a student works just to get a B. Oy. Actually, I found with S1 that–sadly–the large public U’s kinda ding our relatively lower GPA kids (our school does not rank, so no help there). On the plus side, private U’s seem to give our school good results The challenge–to afford them!</p>
<p>I appreciate many of the posts that are reflecting on how our kids must deal with stress. Sometimes we must leave the role of coach and become a shoulder to cry on. I have the most respect for all parents who are conscious of their own role. </p>
<p>And, wow! Our kids are maturing. My S2 is sort of overnight getting quite focused on college. This is really a “who’d a thunk it!?” turn of events. He’s had an impossible dream sort of goal for a career, and I think lacked the confidence to really go for it. Suddenly, he’s stepped up. I’m delighted and flummoxed and so relieved he’s feeling better about his future plans.</p>
<p>The positive side to his academic school is they do not assign any summer schoolwork–no required reading, no essays, nothing. After an more-than-intense year, the kids are just giddy with relief. It’s not like our kids have nothing to do. S2 will be working on his portfolio this summer, which of course requires a lot of time and thought, and he’ll also work on essays.</p>
<p>Fogfog, I definitely see your point and share your view. Excuse the expression, but I think it “dumbs down” the meaning of AP when Freshmen and Sophomores can take them. They simply can’t have met the same prerequisites as Jrs and Srs and they don’t yet have the academic maturity to approach material at the same level. </p>
<p>Our school just toughened up the requirements for AP Eng because too many “average” students were taking it. Now you have to have 3 years of prior Honors level English and an A (not A- anymore) in those classes. (An A at our school is 95% and above. A- is 93% and 94%.)</p>
<p>My D is thrilled! Finally she can analyze literature with other students who are at, or near, her level in this area in which she excels.</p>
<p>I do know kids who go to some exclusive privates in this area who are ready for AP’s in fresh and soph years, but those kids are ahead of the curve and are probably taking CTY or other courses during the summer. My S took honors geometry at his HS in freshman year, which was considered way ahead of the pack at his school. OTOH, S had friends who started off taking Algebra 2 freshman year at other privates something S took Soph year.</p>
<p>Our school offers two AP’s to sophomores - AP US History and AP Psychology. AP Psych has no pre-rec’s but it’s the only AP that doesn’t. The rest all require an A in the previous non-honors class or B in the previous honors class. AP Euro is only available to Juniors and AP Gov. is only for Seniors, AP Eng. is only for Seniors as well. All AP’s have summer homework, and most honors classes do too. My son will end up with 5 or 6 AP’s and that’s a bit more then average.</p>
<p>fogfog, the madness is in part driven by the Newsweek ranking of high schools by the single criteria of number of AP tests given per student. </p>
<p>D1’s entry-by-test magnet starts off the 9th graders with at least one AP (World). Ninth graders who are taking either Calc AB or BC have two APs. The only reason this works is that the students are capable of doing the work at a high level. From the school profile, I see that 81% of the students receive a 3 or higher. D1 got a B in the class, a 4 on the AP, and a high-600’s score on the SAT II. Did she learn the material at a college level? Depends on what college you’re talking about. The AP World course tends to cover far more than would be the case for a college course, so perhaps it’s not even a fair comparison. What I DO see is that after three years of AP History courses (US, Euro, World), D1 is writing and thinking with sophistication beyond high school, certainly at the level of a college freshman or sophomore at any college. </p>
<p>Since the school curriculum is very heavy on APs, the students really need that first AP experience in 9th grade as they ramp up to heavier courseloads in 10th grade and beyond. For this one school and its student body, the plan works. It would be insanity for most high schools or high school students to use this type of curriculum. D2’s school is nothing like this, and D2 would get absolutely nothing out of the experience if she took an AP early in her high school career. </p>
<p>Like madbean’s S’s school, D1’s school has significant grade deflation. The school profile addresses this, emphasizing that it is common for the students to receive a C in the course and a 5 on the AP. I’m not sure how many adcoms really read and internalize that statement :)</p>
<p>One more thing: the resident school also offers AP courses. D1 considered enrolling in one because it would fit in her schedule better than the magnet AP. She left after a day in disgust, saying that the teacher was spending the first week going over the mechanics of the course. The magnet course was off and running on material pretty much the first day.</p>
<p>The AP situation is weird at my son’s urban public school as well. According to the data gathered by the state, 14% took AP tests in 2007-08 (most recent available data) and 43% scored 3 or higher. All the top kids are encouraged to take AP world history as 9th or 10th graders. 23 AP courses are offered to the ~2400 students in the high school. Basically, the strong students are forced to take AP courses. Otherwise they are stuck in slow moving classes with unmotivated and disruptive students. There are no other honors classes for juniors and seniors except for a few dual credit courses. I am skeptical about those because I’m not sure the credit would be accepted outside our state colleges. Yet, even though there are plenty of students taking AP courses, many do not take the AP exams. S1 said there were 30 students in his AP computer science course this year and only 3 students took the exam. I don’t get it. Next year, he will take AP English lit, calc AB, physics, U.S. history, economics and government for a total of 9 AP courses. No one is forcing him to take AP courses but to take “regular” would be misery. At least the fees for the math and science exams are covered by the state.</p>
<p>Our students recently took a survey about AP classes because of a concern with so many students not taking the AP test. The reason that kids did not take the test were 1) The schools on their list would not take them 2) They didn’t think they would score a 4 or 5 and schools often don’t take less then that.</p>
<p>My son is in a small AP comp sci class and of the 12 students, I think he said all of them took it. Our school has only offered this class for four years and only one student has scored less then a 4. The down side to that is my son said that the teacher could not teach them as many real world applications as he would have liked because he had to get through the material that he knew would be on the test.</p>
<p>It is so interesting to see how different schools approach AP’s. I have no idea how the College AdComs sort through all the different approaches to teaching.</p>
<p>Our school is private and only allows AP classes for juniors and seniors. The pre req is that you had to have earned an A in the previous years honors course within that department. They only offer 5 AP’s: APUSH, AB calc, Eng lit, Eng lang and theology.</p>
<p>For my S2 I think it would have been a disaster for him to have taken an AP course in 9th grade. He wasn’t mature enough or disciplined enough to have handled the course load. I think he would have become discouraged and earned a low grade which would have prevented him from taking AP’s as an upperclassmen. As a junior he was more than ready and excelled in the classes. So for us, this process worked. The only thing that bothers me is that they weight both honors and AP the same.</p>
<p>Teachers at my son’s public HS and my daughter’s private HS both felt that the AP curriculum, except in a few instances such as BC Calculus, meant breadth without depth they preferred to provide. In ShawSon’s school, they have a fabulous social studies department that offers no AP courses. But, my son took a Con Law class as a junior and this year sat next to a law professor at one of our local law schools. I told the professor that ShawSon had argued on his college debate team that Roe v. Wade had been wrongly decided on constitutional grounds. The prof took him through the full Socratic method and later told me ShawSon would have been at the top of his law school con law class. Yet, the school chooses not to have AP courses in that area. It didn’t hurt him. He got into top-ranked schools. At ShawD’s school, they don’t even call them AP and don’t force the teacher to make the curriculum match the course. ShawD’s advanced bio course doesn’t cover key areas covered on the exam, but an MIT prof was very impressed by the paper she wrote for the course – she interviewed him as part of the paper. I don’t honestly know if it matters that a kid takes lots of AP courses so long as the student shows that he/she is really pushing himself in something. I wonder if a heavy AP schedule my detract from showing passion, which seems to be this decade’s flavor du jour at the admissions counter.</p>
<p>Interesting thought shawbridge. Couple that with the summer sports that the kids “have to play” in order to remain competitive for HS sports and these kids just run out of time and energy.</p>
<p>Apollo, I was also a little concerned about whether the Dual Credits would transfer. My daughter will graduate next year with 2 APs but 6 Dual Credit classes.</p>
<p>Every LAC she’s interested in (first-rate schools in MI, WI, IA, and IL have asked for the name of the credit issuing institution (our local CC), and then told us that the credits will definitely transfer in. So I feel much more confident, though it’s still worth checking with the particular schools your child’s considering.</p>
<p>One of the things that stops a lot of kids from taking AP’s at S’s school is that if you do take the AP course you must take the AP test, it counts as the final for the course.</p>
<p>mamom-in our school once you take the AP you still continue with the course and there usually is another final or a large research paper done between May and the end of school in June (for example NYS regents exam, or a school final exam). The AP doesn’t count as a final exam for the course b/c the results aren’t in until July.</p>
<p>Hi, I’ve just found these forums and I’m overwhelmed by how much information you all have to share. I’m trying to play catch up with this thread to learn as much as I can.
My S and I are taking a big step today - we’re starting this summer’s visits at Cornell. Should be there for the 1:00 tour. Then on to Rensselaer, MIT, Brown and Yale. (We have high hopes - please don’t discourage us!). So thanks in advance for sharing and I will try to contribute.</p>
<p>Our public regional HS allows any student to take an AP class. Back when S1 was in 8th grade and I was researching options for HS I did an analysis of the public HS’s AP program. Of those who take AP classes…slightly less than 40% actually take the exam. Further, of those taking the exam… a pathetic 17% score a 4 or 5. It’s a joke…especially when it comes to the school earning credibility with AdComs. This issue is one of several, I am pushing the curriculum director and Superintendent to change. His private HS makes taking the exam a requirement for enrolling in the course, and students are held accountable for results - grade wise.</p>
<p>Welcome scoutsmom, good luck with the tours,hope your S finds a school he loves. I assume from your name that your S is a scout? My S is working on his Eagle project, hope to get it done very soon.</p>
<p>Welcome to the group scoutsmom! Is that name in reference to your daughter or son? My older two kids did scouts their whole college career and older son got his Eagle. Have fun on your college visits!</p>
<p>mamom, How can AP test scores count for Seniors? Are all final AP grades left blank for the students until after the scores are released in July?</p>
<p>MaryOC, I think you’ve brought up a very valid point about the disconnect between the intent of AP’s and the outcome. Is it because they aren’t being taught well, because there aren’t enough pre-rec’s to screen out the kids that won’t do well or even because the teachers don’t teach the specific AP material?</p>
yes, my understanding is the final grade for the class is not released til the AP test results are in. Once the AP test is taken that particular class stops meeting.</p>
<p>Hi - I have a quick question re: senior year ECs on college applications. If a kid is an athlete and is aniticpating particpating in their sports senior yr, how do you represent this on a college ap? For example - if a kid has been a varsity athlete Frosh-Jr year - would you indicate - Varsity Tennis 4 yr - or would they say 3 yr varsity, anticipate 4? If they worked their way up to Varsity - Crew - 2 yr JV, 2 yr Varsity? How does this work?</p>
<p>Welcome scoutsmom;enjoy your college visits!</p>
<p>Archie, my D does music and theatre, not sports, so maybe I’m misunderstanding your question.</p>
<p>But wouldn’t you put 4 yrs (assuming you’re working on your apps over the sunner) and then revise in the fall before submitting if something changes?</p>
<p>Or are these spring sports? (See what I mean? We REALLY are not a sports family.)</p>
<p>In that case, I think you have to say 3 (but maybe you could asterisk a note saying (anticipating 4th year spring 2011 or something like that.</p>
Actually, I found with S1 that–sadly–the large public U’s kinda ding our relatively lower GPA kids (our school does not rank, so no help there). On the plus side, private U’s seem to give our school good results The challenge–to afford them!</p>