<p>awww…I am so glad I still have a son young enough to tell me he loves me everyday. He also thinks I am the best thing since sliced bread. Which of course will abruptly change in less than a year. And then I will know “nothing”!</p>
<p>Pepper - the newest swim team member story reminds me, have to ask my son about his ultimate frisbee team, he had that first game and then I’ve heard nothing! I was at the elem school this wk and an old friend (who runs the winter enrichment classes for the PTA - once a wk classes for K-5 which kids can sign up for, runs after school) comes up to me “hey, so I need a syllabus from your son for the science class he’s going to teach, tell him to email me.” Apparently this is yet another senior year “thing” he’s going to try.</p>
<p>Hi
Been gone all day–
Had a thought on yield protection— I am certain that the yield protection/Tufts syndrom is alive and well…have heard some first had accounts that did not make sense other than the Admissions choose a lower stat kid in stead of high stat/ECs etc kids who went onto a selective school because of the Tufts syndrom/transfer risk.</p>
<p>How many times have you heard kids talk about well–“I can always transfer from xyz”…? kwim</p>
<p>The Admissions are looking for fit-- and I think sometimes miss that kids who have great stats may need merit money etc instead…</p>
<p>I recently remarked to my spouse that I suspect our student might get denied by a privae U/safety school (though our student’s stats are far higher and has all the ECs etc and our kiddo could probably get some nice merit money)
because our student has been offered admission to a very selective school…and has LL.
I think the safety is going to “tufts” our student–not sure -however wont be shocked if it happens…</p>
<p>fogfog - How would your kid’s safety school know about the LL from another school? </p>
<p>But I know what you mean. I am panicking about it all the time, thinking that the highly selective schools will reject my S, just because they are highly selective. And his match and safety schools will reject him because of the Tufts syndrome.</p>
<p>let’s all just believe in fate for a bit…what will be will be. otherwise, we all might be back to worrying whether the preschool we chose was going to put them on the right path for harvard…and I don’t want to go back there…not again.</p>
<p>Sorry, wine talking. Did anyone else watch Glee? That was fun, didn’t have to cover my 9 yr olds eyes or ears or anything.</p>
<p>What is the Tufts syndrome?</p>
<p>I really hope that not too many schools reject kids who are considered a higher scoring (I am not sure I am calling this the right thing but my thinking has been a bit fuzzy recuperating from a sinus infection that while it’s gone seems to migrated to my lungs). Anyway, my thought here is that it isn’t only financial aid or merit money that makes kids apply to certain schools. In my kids’ cases, neither of the two so far who have applied cared much about how their scores compared. The older was looking for smaller liberal arts schools who were strong in his major and wouldn’t be a politically liberal school. My middle is looking for schools that have other factors and while some may be more likely to be in higher ranking schools, I believe that most schools in the US News rankings in the top 100 of either National Universities or National Liberal Arts Colleges would have many of those factors. Then the deciding factors for her will be fit and she has already decided that schools in several parts of the country are completely out- New England and CA. So she has 10 schools she applied to and all are either in her range or she is slightly to more than just slightly above the 75% mark. One has been ruled out (at least by me, she wasn’t at all impressed by her visit and can’t really see herself there but wants to not rule out until ??? Maybe we will be able to convince her after she visits some more in Jan. Certainly one she hasn’t been accepted to yet since it is a reg admission is higher on her list). My feeling is that once you have a certain level of student, a few points here or there doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>The Tufts syndrome is when a college turns a student down because they don’t think they will attend. [define:Tufts</a> syndrome - Google Search](<a href=“define:Tufts syndrome - Google Search”>define:Tufts syndrome - Google Search)
</p>
<p>Okay, I chuckled (but in a kind way) about those who sent SAT scores to the same colleges twice, but only because I paid to send S2’s scores to 5 UCs when (doh!) they clearly state on some website or other that they only need to be sent to 1 UC and will distributed to all. In my own defense, this rule changed between S1 and S2. But… oy.</p>
<p>Re: Yield protection (I try not to call it Tufts syndrome in kindness to a great university)–Some universities try to get a feeling for where students hearts really lie. We hear it often on CC, but it’s worth repeating how important the “Why X?” short essay is to clue in schools of a student’s true desire to attend. If College A is the first choice, it wouldn’t hurt to say so. Mentioning a specific major that the school is known for and how that blends into past ECs and interests conveys he/she is a genuine fit at lower ranked U since higher ranked schools may not offer the same programs. </p>
<p>This is frustrating because all our kids are tired and writing these extra picky essays adds even more stress! I was actually kind of shocked at the outcome mentioned upthread because it’s the first time I recall hearing of a state school tracking such things. Sheesh!</p>
<p>Adcoms have ways of telling who may be using a school as a safety–but alas they get it wrong in some cases. For instance–what about a student who needs an affordable school and has higher stats–like the one mentioned? They do look for signs. A student may write in that “WhyX?” essay or in “Other information” that their family might not qualify for FinAid, and that due to (lower coa? possible merit aid?) therefore College A has become her top choice. </p>
<p>I also think colleges pay big attention to who checks the FinAid box on the application. (Even if the family knows they will not qualify for FinAid because their projected EFC will be sky high, they may want to check it if only to signal that a highly qualified candidate wants an affordable school.) Of course, a lot of this is frustratingly iffy. If the college is dying to enroll that left-handed oboe-player from a third-world country, they may hardly even read her essays let alone care what box she checks!! But after watching results 3 years ago with S1, I’ve noticed a lot of tiptop kids who checked the FinAid box at slightly lower-ranked colleges also wind up getting merit aid offers. But I may just be spinning a conspiracy theory now. It’s late at night!</p>
<p>Amandak - I hear you about Glee! I have a 9 yr old as well, and I feel like I have to prescreen some shows. And then I hear her talking to her sister about Secret Life of an American Teenager that they watched together. Poor kid. </p>
<p>I found myself wondering the other day if I should have held my November birthday child back a year, but I think it’s too late. I hope I haven’t jinxed her, because when we visited colleges she bought a t-shirt at the ones she really liked. It became a ritual, and when we did our last visit of 2 colleges, she walked into the bookstore of the first and she was definitely NOT interested in any of the shirts. 3 hours later she was in love and the bookstore was closed. I ordered her a shirt for Christmas, but I’m hoping it comes with an acceptance!</p>
<p>Very Frustrated. S got his latest progress review for 2nd qtr and it was not good, not good at all. Very smart high IQ kid. Did very well on SAT and ACT but can’t get his act together gradewise. He did not play football this year, he had plenty of time to get homework/projects done. A lot of his problem is not turning in work already completed. Actually, that is his biggest issue. He owed his AP Eccon teacher 3 assignments, had two on him but thrid was at home. Intead of turing in 2 he had in hand, he handed in none, because the teacher wanted all 3, why would I turn in 2? </p>
<p>Extra credit assignments, never ever would he think of doing them. His teachers get frustrated because when they collect assignments and see he isn’t turning one in, he never says anything. He tells us “what am Igoing to tell them that they don’t already know, that I don’t have it to turn in?” Of course, like I said, usually it is in his locker, needs to be printed out from his laptop, etc. Letting the teacher know is better than letting them think you haven’t done it. </p>
<p>I told him last night that I think he has some kind of disability. Why he would think it is OK to not turn in an assingment already done and then not say anything is beyond me.</p>
<p>The frustrating part is this is costing me money. Although he has been awarded some scholarship money from the 3 schools he has heard from, I am sure he could have received more if his grades were better. And at this rate, he will be lucky to retain the scholarships already awarded once they see his mid year grades if they stay the same. I told him to pick two state schools and let his GC that he will be applying to them. I am not paying good money for a kid who is not ready for college. He thinks we are kidding and won’t follow through. I told him if, and that is a big if, he demonstrates that he can do the work and get the grades, we will send him to college. I will not be paying full boat though at a school that he should be getting merit. Right now he has one private school that has offered enough merit to make its cost comparable to state. If he loses that scholarship that school is no longer a consideration. Same with the rest of the schools. </p>
<p>He is taking a rigorous courseload, but I don’t see the effort and this issue with not turning in assignments will be the death of me. arrggghhhhhh</p>
<p>Morning All</p>
<p>I agree the “Why ABC U?” essays are important and should be done well. Our student did the recon for those and frankly no school made the “list” that kiddo couldn’t defend Why ABC U? In fact I asked kiddo questions about ABC vs DEF…HIJ etc…and so we were comfortable with the list and that kiddo can be happy at any one of them on the list–even when they vary so. </p>
<p>The Yield Protection is tricky because the schools do want matches and to offer to students they hope to get…they realize the cross-admits eat into that …and for some schools that expect kids to maybe go elsewhere I think when the app looks too much like a safety–there in lies the admissions officer saying–pass (the kid is great and will likely go to a more rigorous school ) so we wont take the hit on yield.</p>
<p>Its an interesting marketing game, because some schools, like BU are getting a larger pool of more highly qualified applicatants and so the stats are rising…and as BU accepts these kids and wooes them- BU runs the risk of taking a hit on yield and at the same time is gambling on making the university more selective and more rigorous.</p>
<p>UPenn did an ingenious thing this year–ANYONE who wanted to apply fee-waived could. No questions asked. They said in the tours (info session by a funny, informative Admissions Officer) that anyone could check fee waiver to apply. Its all good for them and gains more apps–If kids aren’t applying due to funds or think its too reachy and wont give it a shot. For UPenn -they will certainly get more apps that way…Our student didn’t apply to Penn in the end - yet I think the admissions will see more apps.</p>
<p>Perhaps thats why the EA ED round the supposed urban myth about better chances still exists even when the admissions officers say its not an advantage. I think for ED there must be a clear advantage because they have you committed…Its all of the EA apps that hurt them and that is where I think kids run the risk of being denied when a school sniffs out the safety/or not first love in the app.</p>
<p>On the other subject of kiddos not doing work/following through and lack of executive skills…(and hoping late assignments will go away and dont need to be done! sheesh!)–we have one of those in the house–and its been a battle since birth!</p>
<p>mamom - Emotion here is good. We are here to listen. Emotion on this issue with your son is going to kill the point. Let him know that he is in total control, it’s his choice. Lay out what you are willing to do if he achieves X, and what you will be willing to do if he achieves Y. Stay away from any phrases regarding spending your money on his education. Keep fact based. You have every right to be frustrated, but you are simply going to drive a wedge if you don’t distance yourself emotionally on that part.</p>
<p>Apart from college acceptances. help your son think of some real strategies to help with executive function. He is really lacking here, and it has nothing to do with intelligence, but is a huge impact on success. Will he put all of his homework in a single folder that he takes to all classes (nothing is left in the locker)? How can you work with him on self-advocating with his instructors? This is a real concern. It doesn’t matter if he’s at a LAC or State U, if he won’t talk to his instructors and communicate questions and concerns with them he will not be successful. These are things you need to address with him.</p>
<p>If he doesn’t show improvement, and you have no reason to believe he has ADD or a learning disability, he may do well to attend one year at a community college where he can make the transition to becoming more independent. Yes, he may find the academics on par with his hs classes, but he has to learn the process of succeeding in those classes (going to class, taking notes, keeping track of assignments, working with prof’s/TA’s, meeting in study groups, handing in assignments, etc.).</p>
<p>Please don’t misunderstand me. This is frustrating. I’m suggesting that you take emotion out of the equation when discussing the mechanics of what you will and won’t pay for. Your student should see that as a very logical decision, not an emotional one…not something you are ‘withholding’. You have every right to be concerned and make sure he’s ready before you plunk down $50k or $5k.</p>
<p>((((((hugs))))))) This is the part of parenting that stinks.</p>
<p>FWIW, I have experience in this side of parenting…my '09 graduate, Bluejr’s older brother, has terrible executive function. A zero, or NHI, will kill a grade faster than being unprepared for any test. When it’s sitting right next to them…still not handed in? What the heck?!? It’s like another dimension.</p>
<p>Mamom… I get it I really do. I am surprised you have any hair left. Sit him down and force him to look at the financials. Maybe he will see what you see. Put it in football speak. Tell him a recruited athlete who runs a 4.8, who suddenly can only post a 5.5, will not be as wanted. Just like a kid with a 3.6 GPA who now puts out a 3.3 GPA will not be as awarded. I would also schedule a parent teacher conference and have him tell the teachers what’s going on. I think when an over scheduled kid, ie, marching band, football, cheerleading, etc, drops the EC, they don’t know how to manage the free time and it turns into not managing any time at all.</p>
<p>@mamom: similar battle here, but with standardized tests. S did really well on SAT’s (by regular standards, not necessarily CC standards) but I have the feeling he would have gotten a 35 or 36 on the ACT (really good at knowing content-based material), but would he prep? Um, no. He is applying to all-score schools, so we didn’t want to go in “just to see.” It is definitely costing us potential scholarship money. Which stinks.</p>
<p>Oh, mamom - I feel for you! I never understood the not-turning-in-homework syndrome either. I had that with one of my older kids. It’s very frustrating when they just can’t see the big picture. Vent away here…</p>
<p>I try not to think of the yield thing regarding my son’s admissions chances. Truth is, son really does have a first choice school that should be a match/safety but it HAS to be affordable. Son’s problem is some sort of test anxiety. He really does not do well on standardized tests and finals. I worry that OOS Colleges that don’t really know his school will think that his good grades are inflated because of his SAT scores. His grades would be much higher themselves without the finals. I just try to KNOW that next year at this time, everything will be settled and he will be happy somewhere.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m thinking about both of these topics - yield and not turning in homework - is that we’re all right now in the boat where there isn’t much we can do about these things, so it’s time to let chips fall where they may. This of course applies 100% to yield - thank goodness we have each other to lean on!</p>
<p>On the homework issue, we have gone through that kind of thing with this D, and many of my friends have dealt with it, too. I think what generally is the issue is a kid whose maturity level just isn’t quite there yet. Either they are playing a risk game, toying with the drama of “will this really matter” or “how mad will they get,” or they are working out a self-esteem drama of “my work isn’t any good anyway” and “the teachers don’t like me.” I don’t think it has much to do with their feelings about us, unless they are truly trying to “get back” at parents by failing. It’s just a teenager’s way of coping with feelings they don’t have control over yet.</p>
<p>Our D has put most of this together, and I think it’s been a combination of mostly just plain old getting older and more mature, plus a hands-off, let the consequences teach her approach from us (combined with “we love you no matter what”) and a couple of really great teachers who helped her channel her desire to succeed into action.</p>
<p>I would stay concrete, and away from the hypothetical. Of course you would want as much merit aid as possible - we all do - but we can second-guess ourselves and our kids on that one forever. There will be better grades ands scores anyone could have gotten; there will be scholarship essays they won’t write, or that you’ll find out about too late. And any kid might go to a school based on the family’s choice about cost, whether the kid “tried” hard enough to get more aid or not. </p>
<p>There just isn’t that much more we can do with these seniors. They have one more grade report that could make any kind of difference, but not much of one. And really as with yield we can’t know exactly what aid they “would have” gotten. And we’re certainly past the point of punishing them for school performance or watching every homework assignment. They have to be able to run that game now.</p>
<p>I’m not criticizing anyone - I know all of these feelings, and I appreciate anyone who shares this or any other really hard issue. I do think that trying to fight the “I told you so” and “If only you’d” kind of emotions, and the words we say because of them, is going to be an important job for all of us. We all want the outcome in the spring, whatever it is, whatever it’s based on, to be something that we and they are proud of, comfortable with, enthusiastic about. That may require deciding to feel that way, and deliberately letting the other feelings go.</p>
<p>If a long hard look at a kid’s situation - financial, emotional, whatever - means a gap year, or a year at CC, or the kind of college that isn’t what we were imagining a year ago, or 15 years ago, I’m hoping for everyone that we still can be proud, comfortable and enthusiastic. </p>
<p>This process sometimes seems like the “one great test” of a kid’s worth and a predictor of their future. It’s so hard not to see it that way. But it’s only a step. Yes, it’s a big step, but only one of many, as they put their lives and their identities together. They are succeeding - on the grand scale, we all know what not succeeding looks like. Yes, we can say, “We can only justify paying for XYZ,” or “You made some choices and I guess we’ll see what happens because of them.” We need to be parents, and should insist on a few things, but we also should let some things happen without interfering, and say, “I’m with you however this turns out.” Deciding which choice to make when is a completely personal one.</p>
<p>But I think in the long run having a kid who finishes high school ready for and comfortable with his/her next step, whose relationship with us is that of a partner not an adversary, is a pretty good goal. The colleges will just have to decide what they decide, and at some point we just have to figure we all did our best.</p>
<p>Mamom, I feel your pain. My D is a solid B student, but I feel she could have done so much better. She is taking some Honors / AP courses, but doesn’t put the time in. She’d so much rather be dancing or cheerleading or hanging out with friends. She did take an SAT prep class through the school, but I never saw her study outside of class. I bought her study materials for the ACT & SAT but I don’t think she ever opened the books. The cost of the tests, retaking the tests, possible scholarship money lost is something that eats at me, but I haven’t said it to her. I think she feels the pressure of not getting the grades and scores. When she finally realized that she needed a certain score on her ACT to be eligible for a scholarship at her favorite school, she really buckled down and achieved it, but why not earlier? I think she has a fear of being that A student. She’s even said that if she gets into her reach school, she won’t go there because she will be there with higher achieving students and would only receive B’s & C’s. Nothing like setting yourself up for failure. But if she goes to school with like scoring students, she’d have a better chance of getting better grades. It’s easy for me to say that it all begins with her and she is in control of her grades - that she needs to do the work to get the grades. Her little sister (who she calls a nerd) comes home each week with 100’s on all of her tests, (and I think after my experience with D1 I will have a better idea of how to help her through her college search) but the big sister who scored a 4 in AP Calc and a 32 on her ACT math portion ended up dropping AP Stats because it was “too hard”. She’s taking 3 science classes and gets A’s on 2 and a C so far in the 3rd. I think it’s all about the teacher and what kind of work they can get out of her. This is not a lazy kid, she has worked her entire time in high school, now only one day a week, but she just doesn’t care. And now that her apps are in, she’s truly slacking. Ugh, have to vent because I can’t say it to her.</p>
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<p>Mamom, we’ve encountered each other on other threads, so you know I’ve lived your life. With '09 Son (with Aspergers) it seemed like every grading period he was struggling to bring a grade up because his average included a 0 for work done but not turned in. I always said I didn’t want an IEP, I just wanted grace.</p>
<p>Yesterday D was talking about hanging out with two fellow seniors that, in the past, she has always found irritating. Both these kids entered HS with “RESUME BUILDER” tatooed on their foreheads…they always HAD to have positions of leadership in every organization…most of the time the other students didn’t fight them. (I think partially because the other kids knew that much of it was parent driven.) Anyway, now these kids are apparantly no longer obnoxious or irritating…I guess with all possible positions of leadership attained and all college applications sent, they can just relax and be themselves for the first time in 3 1/2 years.</p>
<p>Interesting observation, missypie.</p>
<p>My S is the opposite, he finds the resume builders to be the most irritating in the last semester of their senior year. With all the leadership positions attained and the college applications turned in, they usually lose the passion they had for their ECs.</p>