<p>CT1417 - thanks for the information. At least I understand it better but I still don’t really like it. </p>
<p>2018dad - Wow! 200,000 readers! Your daughter is impressive!</p>
<p>IxnayBob - your son’s 223 was a MISS?! <feeling silly="" for="" grumbling="" about="" my="" son’s="" score="" being="" a="" miss=""> Sheeshh. No words.</feeling></p>
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<p>We’ve been generally very pleased with our GC, who has spoken at length with our son and seems to have been active behind the scenes also. However, the Naviance “recommendations” of schools to look at seem like a semi-random assortment of schools that, while probably fine institutions, are a million miles from being matches. </p>
<p>I think there must be some automation at work in creating the list; I doubt that the GC came up with the schools.</p>
<p>^you’re lucky, IxnayBob.</p>
<p>Our GC is a nice nice guy, but all the GCs (all 4 of them) are unreachable during the summer, and I’ve heard many parents say the GCs didn’t advise them very well when it came to schools – the parents did it all.</p>
<p>Once I get S’s final ACT scores in, I’m going to schedule an appointment (instead of hoping he’ll return phone calls or emails) and plant myself in front of him for a solid half hour and get all my questions answered based on GC’s knowledge of S and his target schools. </p>
<p>Questions include but are not limited to the following:
Should he disclose his learning disability? Are there some schools on his list where disclosing it would hurt him?
If he were to apply ED, which school would he have the greatest likelihood of being accepted?
Any feedback/comments on his essay?
Any other ECs he should list on the Common App?</p>
<p>I can get some of this info from CC, but I think/hope the GC has some kind of inside track in terms of knowing where our HS’s kids can get in and I hope he knows S’s strengths and weaknesses.</p>
<p>Classof2015, it’s unfortunate that there is such a difference in the quality of GCs – it’s another instance of life not being fair. It is not the case that we could rely entirely on the GC, but she has been a positive factor (aside from the seemingly random school suggestions, but those were on Naviance; in conversation, she has made sensible recommendations).</p>
<p>I hope that you get answers to your questions. You have paid for answers (whether through private school tuition or public school taxes). I’m sure that there are exceptions, and I don’t mean to use too broad a brush, but I have often seen that it is the people who weren’t cutting it elsewhere who became GCs. You called it correctly when you said we were lucky; it was nothing really but dumb, stupid, luck to draw the really good one (the others aren’t awful, but we did get the best at S’s school).</p>
<p>To your specific questions, the one thing I have picked up is that ED is seldom very beneficial EXCEPT for schools that value demonstrated interest highly. Some schools don’t; others do. Another factor is if your son is a recruited athlete or legacy then ED matters, but you didn’t mention it, so I assume that it’s not relevant.</p>
<p>PS You mentioned a half hour meeting; take an hour 
Good luck to your son.</p>
<p>Our GCs clearly see their jobs as doing the kids schedules while they are in high school. They are completely clueless and one told my daughter that an ACT score of 28 would get her into any college. They had no idea what SAT II Subject tests were and hers had never heard of Barnard. Truthfully, with a case load of 425 kids each, I think all they have time for is getting kids schedules figured out and doing the required college recommendations. They don’t know these kids from Adam and base it all on the form kids fill out at the beginning of senior year.</p>
<p>from IxnayBob:
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<p>Ha! I’ll become “the Mom who wouldn’t leave!” Thanks!</p>
<p>He’s not a recruited athlete or legacy, but based on Naviance, his GPA and scores are an exact match for kids from our school who applied ED to two schools on his list and got in, so I’m hopeful – just need to pick which one.</p>
<p>BarnardMom – that’s too bad. 425 kids is a lot. Our GCs have 20 each, tops (which makes me unable to understand why they can’t do a better job…)</p>
<p>@BarnardMom: I’d swear that our kids were at the same school, except I recall we are on different sides of the state.</p>
<p>Last week, DD’s GC asked her if she’d come up with a list yet. When DD said that it was close to 10, GC told her she should cut it to 3. “You can only go to one college. And they’re all pretty similar.” And this is the “good” counselor…</p>
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<p>Been there, heard that and more with S-2011. With their student loads in many of the public high schools, I think the college thing is as far from their focus as anything they are responsibile for. With our first (S-2011) sitdown with the GC (our schedule demand - not hers), she thought Northwestern was a state directional school in Michigan! :eek: Based on that, we took control of the entire process and only used the GC’s office for paper processing (transcripts, letters, etc.) Thank goodness the Guidance Department Secretary was related to one of my employees and knew our S as she went out of her way to help him. And yes, she did roll her eyes a few times when discussing the process and the involvement of our assigned GC. She got the thank you gift card at the end of the year.</p>
<p>The HS GC’s seemed to be focused on the state schools and state flagship (OSU) and a handfull of local LAC’s. Their range of vision was about one state in each direction, even when dealing with the top students (S was a co-val).</p>
<p>Be happy you are here and found this group. Even if you are a newcomer, you will most likely learn a lot more here than in your GC’s office unless your 2014 S or D is in a private school setting. Then you have a better chance as the focus is much more oriecnted towards the entire college selection and applicatin process.</p>
<p>This ride is bumpy and crazy enough without the GC’s making it more so. Sorry to end up ranting but that’s my story and I am sticking to it! :)</p>
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<p>Maybe that’s the approach taken by GC’s husband when he selected a wife :-)</p>
<p>On a more serious note, it is quite disheartening that apparently so many HS students are so poorly served by their GCs. On CC, we see the more proactive parents; I can only imagine what college planning is for many students who can’t rely on their GC or a parent.</p>
<p>DS has a wonderful College Counselor at school. His school uses Naviance to see where other kids from the school have gotten in during previous years and to load up and send the teacher recs. We have never even looked at any list of potential match schools generated by Naviance.</p>
<p>We also don’t have Naviance. Honestly, we’re in a very blue collar area where a lot of kids did not used to go college. As the auto industry has changed, the attitudes at the high school have not. At freshmen orientation, the principal went on and on about the amazing vocational center and all the opportunities there. When tough budget cuts were being made, they almost cut out AP classes. The parents yelled loudly and said they’d pull their kids and school of choice them to a school that had them. The school decided maybe it wouldn’t be good for all the kids who take APs to leave the district so they kept those courses. They actually increased them this year. I’ve provided a lot of feedback. </p>
<p>They have 50 kids take the PSAT each year. The top 50 of the class of about 300 get a note about it a week before hand with a request for a check. They do little to work with the excelling kids. But, with about 1200 kids in a school and 3 GCs, it isn’t really their fault that they can’t get to know them all. In spite of my D being in the top 10, her GC didn’t know who was she was at all. My S says the GC knows him really well.</p>
<p>My D and her friend who is at Wellesley wrote a letter to the principal this summer detailing how the school could have better prepared them for the academic demands of schools of that caliber. It was honest, positive feedback, not a bashing of the school. With lots of hard work, they were able to keep up and do ok, but they definitely noted differences between their high school experiences and their college peers’ experiences! </p>
<p>Given the area and it’s former stronghold in the auto industry, it is somewhat understandable. Thankfully, my D was very determined and started researching colleges many years before she had to apply. Together, we figured it all out and CC definitely helped. I never registered until after she was admitted (as my username indicates!) but we read and learned a lot here! </p>
<p>My son is more challenging for me in some ways. He has a list of six schools right now and I wish it was longer. Right now, he is planning on applying to:
Albion College, Albion, MI (safety- big time, but he LOVED this campus when we visited)
Kalamazoo College, Kalamazoo, MI (easy match- not sure about financial aid)
University of Michigan (he is applying here even though he thinks the campus is totally overwhelming- he thinks people expect him to go here- it is a match school)
Oberlin College- He loved this campus and could totally see himself here. It’s either a match or a very close reach.
Northwestern- obviously a reach. I’m trying to find a weekend to take him to visit. He might think this campus is too big.
Brown- He wanted to apply to one Ivy just to see. After exploring all of them, Brown seems like the best fit to him. I’m also trying to find a weekend to take him to visit.</p>
<p>I went on visits to Northwestern and Brown with my D. I was hoping my S would pick somewhere different to visit… since I’d like to see some other places! He hasn’t found anywhere else he thinks he’d like to apply. </p>
<p>I’m totally open to suggestions. I’d love for him to be closer than NYC…lol. Easy driving distance would be nice. His dad is NOT big on LACs- he thinks all kids should go to business school.</p>
<p>GCs do run the gamut. My daughter had a SUPERB GC - one woman handles the entire senior class, about 160, as far as the entire college process. She has no other duties (class scheduling, etc.) however, she really works hard for each girl. My daughter, though a top student, was a horrible procrastinator and often asked the GC to send a rec that was due the next day, or other horrendous favors and tasks. Only recently (my daughter graduated from COLLEGE five years ago) the GC told me that my daughter brought her chocolates and flowers for all she did for her. I had no idea! </p>
<p>My son’s GC at a different school is fine. My son loves him and he seems to know my son well. When Naviance wasn’t up and running for the year with updated transcripts, he did eventually get one by hand and mailed it off as a favor. </p>
<p>The GC <em>I</em> had years ago told me “Don’t even bother applying to Purdue because you won’t be able to get into a top Ivy like that.” Brilliance at work! And at that point I was already accepted at a HYPS school. And I graduated from Purdue. That experience makes me really appreciate my kids’ GCs!</p>
<p>2016Barnardmom - Fordham is in NYC, has a beautiful campus (Rose Hill) and has a very strong business school.</p>
<p>2016BarnardMom: has your family considered WUSTL? Pre-professional but has some of that liberal-arty feel. Gorgeous campus and some opportunities for good merit aid. We visited this summer and were impressed how the school seems to have that smaller LAC feel for its undergraduates while maintaining a world-class competitive grad school which also supports undergrad research.</p>
<p>We have considered WUSTL. He isn’t sure he wants to be that far away and it is just such a crap shoot. I’m hoping to find a couple more matches for him. I’ll have him look at Fordham. It could be nice to have them both in the same city even if they far away! Maybe he won’t be as concerned about being far if he’s in NYC.</p>
<p>D is looking at Fordham as well. And after expressing some interest <em>signing up for info online,</em> she got a application fee waiver. Worth a try!</p>
<p>When my D was applying two years ago, there were several schools which came to the Detroit area for info sessions. There was a road show with Brown, Rice, Columbia, Cornell and Northwestern. I’ve been looking at the schools’ web sites for their traveling road show info session schedules and am kind of disturbed that Brown and Oberlin are the only ones on my son’s list who are coming to Michigan at all. I wonder if this is in an indication they aren’t looking for kids from this area or already get enough interest from kids in this area? Or ??? How do they decide, I wonder.</p>
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<p>Really, Bob, all you have to do is wander over to the Financial Aid forum to see the results . . . one kid after another with admit letters in hand, and no clue how they’ll ever be able to pay for the out-of-state public or other unaffordable college they applied to!</p>
<p>Barnardmom–I have yet to figure out the reasoning behind which schools visit, at least when discussing the more selective schools. This year, Dartmouth and Penn will both be holding separate evening info sessions at our school to which they invite students from surrounding towns. Yale & Columbia will visit for those 30-45 minute sessions that take place during the school day. Cornell hasn’t visited once while I have been watching, nor have they held an info session in a nearby town, yet 20-odd students apply each year and seven +/- 1 are accepted each year.</p>
<p>My kids attend a private school with 150 kids and a dedicated GC for college. No clue what the man does all day, he certainly hasn’t helped us much at all. He came up with a list for d that made no sense whatsoever. But I’m not the type to hand something over that important to a relative stranger. </p>
<p>Even when my older attended a school of 45 per grade the GC’s really didn’t work with them to help cull a list. </p>
<p>I just figured that wasn’t their job. I always feel badly for the kids whose parents aren’t really focused in on this, things have changed so much since we went to school and many times parents have no clue.</p>