Parents of the HS Class of 2017 - 3.0 to 3.4 GPA

Parents Forum
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@rienrah -

Some schools have open AP admissions where any student who wants to take a class can. Others, like my son’s HS, has a process whereby parents can opt a student who isn’t recommended for an honors or AP class in. I did that for my middle son, he of the 140 IQ and 2.5 GPA. His lowest AP score was a 4, I opted him into APUSH, AP Euro, AP Comparative World Government, AP Macro and Microeconomics, AP Physics C and, yes, AP Calc BC. He actually failed both the physics and the calc classes because he opted not to do HW, but he wound up with 8 credits in each subject at college.

S17 is dyslexic and dsycalculic He earned his way into both AP Euro and APUSH based on his social studies grades, which are all A’s - math brings his GPA down. He dropped both courses in the first quarter. He took AP Psych last year, got an A in the class and a 3 on the test. This year, he is taking APES and AP US Government. He earned a B+ in both the first quarter.

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@tacocat333, @MSU88CHEng and @smakl70 , and anyone else who wants to join the Calc Struggle Son Symposium (love the name TacoCat333!) - CoyoteSon also has the same Pre-Calc teacher this year for AP Calc. However, I think a lot of pre-Calc is just slightly deeper re-working of Algebra II/Trig, whereas Calc really has all new concepts. And this teacher uses a completely online textbook and online automatically graded problem sets – grr - so very little teaching. I am so happy we found a real mathematics teacher to be a tutor, because the tutor is the one doing the teaching, not just helping the student to get the right answer.
I had resisted tutors, even though some of the other students have them to help earn A+ grades - but I broke down because I want to make sure CoyoteSon gets the concepts - he may indeed decide he likes Economics, or maybe even Physics - and I think it is a great example for college to get help to understand (and not just grade-grub).

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@tacocat333 - no word at all from GMU on merit. On the GMU thread here on cc under the individual colleges, it looked like the merit awards that folks were sharing were all for out-of-state candidates, and we’re in-State. Not sure I should voice this thought aloud, but even with big merit awards from CoyoteSon’s CTCL schools, GMU will be cheaper for us without even a dime of merit. I fully expect we will have to weigh the small-supportive LAC environment against cost - the Honors College classes and dorm will help, but it will be up to CoyoteSon to figure out where he fits.

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Congrats to CoyoteSon! And that’s a very nice scholarship!! How great to have so many choices! Hope you have a great trip – stay warm!

Regarding interviews with a college senior rather than an AO – my kid had an interview at a university’s engineering school, where the interviewer turned out to be a senior. He made some really inappropriate comments to her, including this gem: “This is an awesome school. Even the REALLY attractive girls here are smart!” When she met me in the reception area afterward, D rolled her eyes and said “Well, THAT was really special”.

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I really belong on the parents of the class of 2018 thread (which I do follow), but as the students on that thread tend to have higher GPA’s and impressive test scores, I feel much more at home on this thread since my S18 falls squarely in the 3.0 to 3.4 category. So I follow all of your posts with interest and a real sense of hope for my son’s college future.

I have been curious as @rienrah also mentioned how interesting it is that kids in this GPA range are so readily taking AP classes. Because of my son’s grades in science and math last year, the department head and head of curriculum denied him permission to take any AP classes this year. All AP classes at his school require multiple signatures from adminstrators. I have been very nervous that no AP’s will be a huge mark against him on his applications. He will try again next year, but no guarantee he will get in then either.

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Regarding AP classes for the B/B+/A- student

Here is my take, speaking for 3 of my 4 kids.

First and foremost, personally, I don’t think gpa has a thing to do with whether or not a student should or should not take an AP class. To a degree they are independent of each other. Yes, the question and the argument can be made whether an A in a mainstream class is better than the B in an AP class. Of course colleges would prefer the A in the AP class however that is not always how it pans out. I think we can all agree that a C in either side S not the right choice!

One kid ended up with a significantly higher gpa largely due to lack of rigor. She scrambled junior and senior year to add rigor to become competitive for her top choice school. Which she got into but was denied at another where on paper her stats matched and I truly think lack of rigor was part of it. That said, neither of her younger brothers despite more rigor would likely be admitted to her school. It really varies by kid and I think there is not single right answer.

S17 is is very much a “do what it takes” kid. He will do what it takes to get at least a B. That would be true whether in a mainstream class (where he gets bored and causes issues for those struggling with his chatter) or in the AP where he is in the middle of the pack. Personally I’d rather he was challenged and brought home a B versus bored and distracting kids who need help. He is also more likely to rise to the occasion if pushed. Within reason.

Our AP classes are self selecting for the most part but math does require a certain track. His has him at AP AB Calc. He could have chosen a different track but is pulling in a solid A- to B depending on the week. His younger brother with a slightly higher gpa and test scores is one track higher and will have BC as a senior.

In both cases, math has not been the GPA killer. It’s been foreign language for both and for S17, AP World (which was a bad choice pre ADHD meds lol). He’s had semesters that were 3.0’s and others that were as high as 3.67.

My point is… gpa is only one data point and rarely paints the full picture, especially for kids in this range. My S has 3 AP classes this year, and it is entirely possible all 3 will have a B. I am ok with that.

The 4th had no rigor, a gpa in this range, went to college and graduated on time. It all works out.

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@CoyoteMom, congrats on Allegheny! I hear you on the state school merit issue; GMU really doesn’t need to draw in VA people with more carrots. Reading the CC threads on GMU and Pitt (where TacoSon has also been admitted but no merit aid decisions as yet) would make us believe that EVERYONE is getting full rides and pet unicorns.

@VaNcBorder and @rienrah , TacoSon has about a 3.6W and takes all IB and AP courses. Placement is based on a combination of teacher recs and student interest. We’re an IB school but a handful of courses are AP. I really wish there were a standard level calc offered but it’s also a small public that really pushes IB, so not as many choices as there would be for a bigger school. I actually have very mixed feelings about AP overall. It makes me sad that it’s become the default for bright kids instead of an opportunity for kids who are passionate about certain subjects to delve deeper into the content.

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@rienrah Probably because different schools have different rules.

DS’s school has VERY strict rules as to who takes what classes but it’s not overall GPA. You can’t opt your kid into AP Classes. The school is so strict that most kid who take AP’s get 5 on the test. (Weeded out the kids who wouldn’t do well before they even started.)

You can only take AP BC Calc if you stay in the honors track and get a B or better in H. Pre-Calculus. You can take AB Calc as long as you pass regular Pre-Calc with a B. S took AP Calculus last year as a junior and was an easy A for him. (He only has a 3.1 UW) He had had good grades in math all but spring of freshman year…starting with A’s in Calculus as a 7th grader. He is taking AP Physics because he had good grades in Science & Math, but struggling because the homework just take too long. (It’s a really fast paced class.)

Basically that is only half the equation that makes up his grade, don’t ask what he got in Spanish last year. Or English… (Ok… not below a C) What my son is not allowed to take is AP English or AP Social Studies classes because of previous grades.

Keep in mind my son got a 1520 on the SAT’s barely preping at all. He is a gifted kid… but being gifted he also has his quirks one of them being tuning in all his homework over the years has been a challenge. (He is much better now.) He can fail to tun in homework, take and Ace a final but only get a B in a class because of his homework grade. Honestly 8th grade science his test score was a 99% and he got a B in the class. He’s not alone in being like this and just because you are good in math & science doesn’t mean you are good at writing or foreign language. Sounds like your school need to re-think it’s policy. It shouldn’t be an overall GPA that lets kids take AP classes IMO.

Also GPA’s don’t translate school to school. My S’s school has grade deflation. Lot of student take AP classes get B’s on the course but a 5’s on the AP tests. It is a very rigorous school particularly in the honors classes. My son was in all honors freshman year, did poorly but none of those classes counted with a +1 point.

Sorry… you hit a bit of a nerve…

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@curiositycat333 , etc.

When my middle son was in 6th grade, he was bullied by his math teacher, who refused to sign off for him to take the test for the honors track. I found out when he called me crying on the day of the test. He was allowed to take it and got in.

The following year, the science teacher refused to recommend him for the test for that honors track. The teacher’s extra credit questions all concerned sports and not science and my son was vocal in his hatred of sports and his disdain for this method of giving extra credit. That time, I literally wound up across a table from the school district’s attorney and the special ed coordinator (son was classified for anxiety issues) and told them I would sue if he wasn’t allowed into the honors class. The principal demanded a meeting midway through the first quarter to discuss his progress. The teacher turned out to be a retired older man working as a leave replacement with whom my son bonded. At the meeting, the teacher expressed surprise at being there for my son and said, to the principal’s chagrin, that he was the ONLY student to have earned 100 on the first unit test.

I need to mention that one of my closest friends is on the school board and I was keeping her apprised of the situation as it unfolded. After this, the school board raised the issue of opening up AP and honors enrollment and the current situation is that ALL kids in the middle school are tested for honors unless their parents opt out in writing. S17 asked me to opt him out for the math honors program and I did. In the HS, any student can test if they choose to. In both schools, parents can opt to enroll students in honors classes or AP’s even if the student isn’t “recommended.”

As part of my campaign, I did research on the policies of neighboring school districts and of those that were rated higher than ours, more than half had open enrollment for honors/AP’s. I wrote a long letter to the superintendent before my meeting with the lawyer and sped director detailing my findings. I think that helped.

I remember the head of our guidance department once saying that when he worked as a GC, he had a student who challenged himself by taking the most rigorous courses, though he never earned higher than a C. He said he wrote the most glowing recommendation he ever wrote for this young man because of how he pushed himself.

I think it’s sad that kids aren’t allowed to challenged themselves because schools are so hung up on their rankings that they limit who can be in the classes. I also feel sad that HS students feel that they have to either push themselves and take AP classes in areas they don’t enjoy because it’s expected and also that kids don’t take those classes because of fears for their GPA. I still remember my middle son coming home one day and telling me, with true sadness in his voice, that one of his closest friends was dropping honors math because he was “only getting a B and he might not get into an Ivy.”

I’m sorry to have sidetracked the thread, but I think it’s critical to realize that while our children are 3.0 - 3.4 students, they are all different. Some excel in math and science and struggle with english and history while others are the opposite. Some work extremely hard to be in this stat and others are in this category because they slack and don’t do HW. Some study hard, some don’t. Some have LD’s or ADHD. The bottom line is that they are our children and we love them. All of us want the best for our children and wish the best for the other children on the thread. When I read of another student’s acceptance into a school, I feel happy for that child and family. I feel badly when I read about rejections.

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@techmom99 Love most of your post. Very proud to hear how you stood up to your school district. I had to fight a few fights for my son, particularly to keep him in honors science. His AP Bio teacher whom he had for H. Bio is now one his best champions & writing him one of the best letters of rec.

I was so pissed with that 8th grade science teacher. It wasn’t that my S wasn’t doing the science homework it’s how she was grading it. That teacher graded the home on completion… if he didn’t fill in one question he got a zero… she never even read what he wrote or what the kids wrote. So if you knew how to blush*t… you got a good grade. But my son couldn’t/wouldn’t write anything unless it was the perfect answer. The teacher would bitterly give him a 0 for leaving one answer blank. (Instead of a 90%.) And not turning in homework BTW isn’t because of being lazy… it’s been a combination of things that I won’t explain here in a public post. Trust me my kid does know how to work hard, he’s not nor never been lazy. Felt like this teacher didn’t know how to tell who actually understood what she was teaching and who was just coasting.

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@curiositycat333 -

I apologize for that part of my post and didn’t mean to imply that anyone’s child is lazy or not working hard as they can. I was referring to my own middle son, who chose not to hand in HW. Actually, though he does sound like your son in the perfection aspect. He was classified with a diagnosis of ODD/anxiety/perfection and performance issues. Essentially, he would rather fail than hand in a less than perfect answer. However, he is capable of handing in perfect work and still chose not to, which is frustrating.

The 8th grade science teacher sounds like S17’s foreign language teacher. He is spelling exempt due to the dyslexia and probably should have been FL exempt but he wanted to take Latin. She gave plenty of extra credit on tests but you couldn’t get it if something was spelled wrong! It took almost half the year but I finally got the school to force her to give him the credit if his answer was close even if not spelled properly. I pulled him out of FL after that year as he had his two years in.

I sometimes wonder why some people go into teaching if their goal isn’t to help students become the best they possibly can? Why are punitive measures, like giving a zero when most of the work was done or not giving credit where there is a spelling error (unless it’s a spelling test), embraced by some teachers, usually the ones MY kids have?

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@CoyoteMom I read this last night and thought it was 14k annually, which would be under their NPC for us and bummed me out, 14k a semester is much better!!! Congratulations that is a lovely offer! I don’t think we will see a packet until Jan, his portal still says under review, not evaluated. I would be over the moon at that offer but S17 has lower stats than CoyoteSon.

Allegheny is one that is likely higher on my list than my sons but that is largely due to just knowing less about it. If he gets in and the offer works we will visit.

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@techmom99 and @curiositycat333 I hear you about teacher struggles! Luckily S17 has had a little easier than S14 did but I think I paved that road. There were classes S14 should have/wanted to take that we just refused to allow. There was one teacher in particular who LOVED to bully S14 and unfortunately taught most of the classes in S14’s passion. This teacher retired after S14 graduated and I still feel it’s because he wouldn’t have him to push around anymore.

S17 currently has a public speaking teacher who disliked S14 (called him a Nazi in class?? not sure why) and sure enough S17 is having trouble keeping a decent grade - which is crazy because he’s a good speaker but she holds it against him and the class is highly subjective.

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@techmom99 I PM’ed you…

@smak170 Don’t you hate those teachers. My son’s 8th grade teacher (whom I already didn’t like) picked up one of his doodles and thought he was drawing her and making fun of her and called in the principal. Honestly the kid really didn’t care enough about her, he was just bored and doodling.

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UGH!

I just spent my entire afternoon running NPC’s for S19! He has a precalc assignment for break that requires them to figure out how to pay for college using real data. Which meant choosing a real school for the exercise. I saw no point in all that work (and it is a LOT, S17 did it too) on a school that had no potential. Totally different set of possible majors and criteria than his brother. It kind of depressed me as his stats are better but his school pool really isn’t all that much different from a merit standpoint. Sigh. He is just as picky as his brother about some things though so lots of constraints.

His criteria (for now) were as follows.

Location: California, East Coast, Southeast, Denver, Chicago. Near some body of water, preferably major metropolitan area.

Majors: Physics, Computer Science, Chemistry, Political Science, Film.
Minor: Music
EC’s: Music

Mine was…NPC result had to be no greater than 40k.

Based on this very first rough swipe at a list for the project he narrowed it down to 2 potential options. San Diego State and College of Charleston. And the homework winner is…

College of Charleston!

I have to admit. I didn’t see that one coming. H is a bit appalled (SC politics) Kind of fun though. I think the fact that we have family in Charleston was a bit of a plus to make him want to look into it and Charleston itself is a lovely place. Sounds exotic to him I think. LOL! But hey if anyone has good ideas for schools that fit his list that with merit could come under 40K…bring it on. I ran NPCs assuming 30ACT, 1370-1400 SAT and a 3.71, very very rigorous schedule and ok EC’s. They may be optimistic numbers but then again, they may not be. We crunched them together and he feels they are achievable.

@CoyoteMom you were right! S17’s Allegheny portal is updated as of today to “evaluated”. Guess we may see something before Christmas from them after all! I just checked and was shocked to see that, made my night though. I am not telling S though. It is probably b/c S19 insisted on buying S17 a UVM hat for xmas. Which honestly isn’t a sign per-se…he’s bought hats from any school he could see himself at so I was ok with it.

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@eandesmom, did you look at the University of Denver for S19?

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@rosered55 was also wondering about University of Denver

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@eandesmom he said Chicago, what about DePaul?

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I have been trying to keep up on here and at the same time taking a break otherwise it becomes overwhelming if that makes any sense. D17 just had a wake up call. We just had a meeting with the counselor and the principal because she was failing 3 of her 5 classes - all AP’s. They were shocked because she is failing the classes she should be strongest in since she received a perfect Reading score on her ACT and near perfect on English. I know it is just because she gets distracted and doesn’t hand in work but I don’t think she understands how this time is critical since she has no grades from Junior year (she was away in Croatia). She started handing some things in and the grades are creeping up. I am afraid it is all to late though. She has finished apps for 4 of her 8 schools but she the teachers never submitted their recs until Dec. 15th even though she requested in early Nov. She has submitted for Beloit, College of Wooster, Conn College and Kalamazoo BUT she has really done nothing for the two state schools, Macalester (her favorite supposedly), and Barnard (which is a long shot at this point and the only school she visited and interviewed for). She only has one teacher rec in and her best friend is coming back this week after being away since August. I don’t see her getting anything done. I have given her the option of community college which she says she would be embarrassed about because the colleges are put on the wall of the school but if she keeps going at this rate, she won’t even graduate so I think that would be more humiliating. The principal and counselor seem to think that she could get a free ride if she just applied herself. My fear is that we will send her away and she will do what she is doing now but she won’t be given the chance of handing in late work. We will spend money (for travel, etc. even if she were to be given a free ride) for nothing. UGH!!!

Anyway, I don’t know when we will hear from the 4 she has now. I have not been doing anything for her except reminding her and giving her advise. It is hard to be hands off but I know she will have to do it in college. She is very independent in one way. She started driving this year and she is taking care of her car, working 25 plus hours a week (her choice to pick up extra hours) where they think she is super responsible, and she is doing talks about studying abroad at local middle schools, Rotary clubs and high schools. If I can just light a fire under her about this, that would be great!

CONGRATS on all the acceptances so far! It is so nice to get some answers before the holidays. Happy Holidays!

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I got started on the outcome update yesterday but wow, BUSY weekend here! I will get done this week but it’s likely to be a bit later on.

@mackatarinasmom Are you able to see her grades and know that it is all homework related and not test related? I know here, late assignments are punished pretty heavily and can be hard if not impossible to really recover from. All schools will want first semester grades and so yes, if she doesn’t have any from junior year, it could really pose a problem. Graduation should definitely come first. I would be really looking at the classes to ensure that it isn’t any kind of learning issue. Simply b/c one tests well does not often or always equal doing well in classes itself.

To an extent I agree with letting your child run the process. That said, these are pretty overwhelmed kids and I think it’s expecting a lot of them to manage the entire app process with all it’s small pieces that can get lost and is not intuitive and is different for each school, plus take difficult classes, do well, try to navigate the social nightmares that are part of HS. Sometimes they simply don’t know where to start to get things under control and guidance can really make a difference. My S has commented more than once how hard it is for his friends who are not getting parental support and that he cannot imagine trying to navigate this whole thing completely on his own. Each child is different and I expect S19 to be more proactive in some ways but they are still kids.

I really hate it when school officials make comments like that. Free rides aren’t handed out like candy and for the most part often involve a student choosing a location they might not otherwise. That said, I know several of the schools on your list are generous with merit so assuming the gpa from 9-10 is good she should get nice offers…the trick will be not to have anything rescinded. A dip can be ok but obviously failing, not so much. Huge hugs I am sure that is stressful for you.

@rosered55 and @lr4550 I did and it showed 14K in merit which would still leave a COA of 46K. He did add Lawrence as of tonight and that may end up being the project but we’ve barely scratched the surface I think. I need to look around St. Louis as well. I am sure there will be a ton of schools I’m not familiar with given his very different geography. He’s fairly open as long as it’s urban (or pretty close) and near a body of water that he can actually see and not in WA or OR. He would love to be in Boston or New York but that just doesn’t work with the budget.

@smakl70 I did not. He will consider Jesuit schools but not Catholic but the ones in areas he likes…don’t come in where they need to be so far. He would love to be able to consider Northwestern and for 2 years while the kids overlap it could be a possibility but those other 2 years? No way. He needs a school that will award enough merit and not rely on FA at all, where any need based FA due to the 2 kids in school is just “gravy”. I was hoping Tulane would pencil as an option for him but nope. He did add in Lawrence which I think could be a very nice option for him and it may be what he does the homework on versus CoC. The reality is that one may really really need to consider our flagship which does meet all the criteria he has…other than it’s at home. He is thinking grad school and we need to be mindful of that.

@CoyoteMom those are some lovely but COLD reaches you’ll be visiting. I ran the NPC on Mac for S19 tonight, of course it didn’t pencil which is a bummer as I think he would like it a lot. At least you’ll be there around the holidays, cold is more tolerable when decorations are up!

@snoozn did you say RIT was now the top choice? Smith has been usurped??? LOL. I did look at RIT and U of Rochester for S19 and darn it, they still aren’t affordable.

@curiositycat333, @techmom99 your teacher discrimination horror stories make me very sad. I’ve never really experienced anything like that. S17 did get kicked out of a class in MS as he was distracting other kids, basically he was done with his work and bored so they kicked him out and into the honors class he’d refused to take. And then a little bit of the reverse for one child in 1st grade who tested in borderline for a program (we could appeal) and his teacher thought we should not as he wasn’t mature enough and needed to work on his social issues. Um yeah, his social issues were due to being gifted and that program knew how to deal with him far far better than this teacher could have.

Your kids are so lucky to have you as their advocate!