I always imagined D as a lawyer so the dismal job market for law is very disappointing. My other kid would challenge me from time to time, but D was a born debater. I have been unable to win arguments with her for years! She finally was seriously considering law, after first hand experience through Mock Trial, when she heard the warnings of doom and gloom in the field. I’m sure there are other careers where that will be useful, but it does make me a little sad to hear of the job market from lawyer friends and realize it just isn’t a good option
It’s funny how kids are getting spammed by different schools. I don’t think we have one spammer, except for maybe UA (my fault, I got on the contact list). They just sent one of those big postcards that really said nothing on it but UA is for Families. Umm, OK. That’s it?
Congrats, MOD, on your D’s AP results. Almost done!
I sent my D’s GC an email a couple days ago, and commented last night at dinner that she hadn’t replied yet. Well, she just called me and we talked for over 20 minutes, and she answered all my questions, and more. We are really fortunate for such a great GC, and she loves D (and me, of course). So, we are well positioned for next fall and getting ‘priority’ from her in case we need it ;). Unfortunately D20 will not be able to have her as GC, because the of the way they stagger incoming classes and GCs. So, I told her to set us up with the best one. LOL.
Plans for the weekend? We are hanging out in MI at a cottage we share on a small lake. No internet, so I won’t easily be able to check in, other than on my phone.
@snoozn Thanks for the podcasts. I listened to the Slate one last night as I was falling asleep. There are some nuggets in there. It kind of makes you feel good, because most of the stuff we already know!
@BusyNapping we feel the same, kind of sad that son won’t pursue law. Since he was little we knew he would be a good candidate for that field. But, we discussed the financial aspect of it with him and the harsh realities of the job market.Our biz lawyer friend sat with him and basically pleaded with him not to study law. That kind of sealed the deal. I still think it would be a great fit for him and he would probably enjoy it if he could get a job. It’s the " if you can find a job" part that scared him off.
CA NY PA VA – can you tell the states in which I’ve lived? I’m not too creative and I have to admit, when I was planning to delurk and had to come up with a “name” for myself here on CC, it took awhile and some scratch paper. And yes, that was the best I could come up with! I grew up in VA, met my H at college in PA, went to grad school in NY and then moved to CA with an intention of post-docs only here. 20+ years later….
@MotherOfDragons, great news for your D18! I was thinking it was such a harsh consequence for one class, to have to leave her high school, yikes! Glad you all can take a breather now.
Interesting talk about becoming a lawyer these days. Kind of sad, I could totally see my S20 doing that. But probably a good idea to keep any thoughts of law school in the background vs having it as a primary aim.
@itsgettingreal17, I have mentioned Arizona to my D17 as a possibility. She wants SoCal and warm, but with the hard to predict UC results, I thought Arizona might be reasonable to consider. I feel their wording on the merit is now a bit fuzzier than it used to be (as you mentioned, “potential to receive higher”), so we would also have to see how it turned out. We probably won’t have time to visit before application season, unfortunately. Let me know if you learn anything else.
Hope you all have a nice Memorial Day. Last dance competition for this year is happening for us this weekend, yay! 12 more days of school as well, just hoping both kids can hang in there!
Most lawyers, even prior to the downturn in the legal market, counseled college students considering law not to go to law school. The reason is that the practice of law is not what most think. Most lawyers’ practices are nothing at all like what is shown on TV. While the market is not nearly as robust as it was in the early 2000’s, a good lawyer will still have good employment options. I would not make a blanket recommendation that no one should go to law school. A student that has a good understanding of what the practice of law really entails, that can get accepted to a top law school, and is willing to do what it takes to pay off those law school loans quickly can still have a successful career. Others that should still consider law school are those that want to do public interest work and can get a scholarship at a quality law school to minimize loans or get accepted to a top law school that will help them repay the loans.
Okay…I don’t brag much however I am super Proud of my S…just got back from UIL State Academic competition and he got 1st place in Calculator Applications…better yet his team got 1st place in Calculator Applications. Overall a great meet. With any luck we will be able to add that to his NMSF application. All the hard work and many hours of studying is finally paying off. @-)
Congrats to your S, @Tgirlfriend! That’s a great accomplishment! I love hearing about the successes of everyone’s kids. 
Congrats @Tgirlfriend !
@Tgirlfriend nice job by S at the academic competition. I am going to have to google Calculator Application events to see what that’s all about. Learn something new every day in here!
@MotherOfDragons Great job by your D. Glad it worked out!
@canypava After talking to the regional rep, Arizona didn’t make the list. The top merit award is $17,500/yr, which is automatic based on stats (GPA, SAT/ACT, # of AP/IB and honors courses taken). National merit gets you $23,000/yr. So for us, Arizona would work out more expensive than our in-state option, which also has an Arabic flagship and a much stronger b-school (UT). As much as she wants to leave TX, that wouldn’t make sense in my opinion, and it would be compromise time.
Good luck to your D at the dance comp!
@canypava, which AZ school are you interested in? We toured AZ schools in spring (NAU, ASU, & UA) and I can repost the visit info for you if you’d like.
@itsgettingreal17 Re: UArizona, would you consider the Honors College there? I’ve not heard stellar reviews of it here on CC. Most of it is probably just haters from ASU/Barrett, but there may be something to it. I looked at UofA for D, it sounded like a possibility. Their website frustrated me, and it has dwindled on the vine ever since. Let me know what you find out…maybe we’ll have to add it back to the NNUC category.
ETA: Oops, cross posted
Here are are UA and ASU reviews. FWIW, the honors college at ASU was much more enticing than the honors college at UA. Seem like more of a community.
Arizona State Univ (ASU) exceeded our expectations. We did the info session (standard but very nice facility), walking tour, and engineering tour on the Tempe campus. ASU has five separate campuses and upwards of 60k students between the campuses and online program. Even though the campus is right in the middle of the city of Tempe, we were surprised at how peaceful it felt. We heard birds almost everywhere. The campus was large enough to feel like a college environment but compact enough to be walkable. We did a quick look at the sports complex, but it wasn’t “pushed” like it is on many campuses. The engineering tour was well done by three students from different engineering disciplines. The biggest surprise and plus is the Barrett Honors College. It is a separate mini campus adjacent to the main campus that houses about 5,000 students. It is a stand-alone facility with its own dorms, apartments, dining facility, classrooms, and honors-dedicated professors. Honors students must take 36 of their ~140 (160?) units as honors classes. They may take honors-specific classes or make any other class an honors class by working with the professor to make the class just a little more than it would be. But what tipped the hand in favor of ASU and Barrett was the honors facilities. The dorm rooms were just better than anything we have seen yet. The upper division (sophomore and up) apartments were better than the first and second (and probably third and fourth) apartments I lived in. They looked like a resort. There was a pool with palm trees that was Barrett students only access. The food at the honors dining hall was a little better than standard dining halls (we ate there. The food was pretty good and there was a gelato bar!). There also is a 4/1 program for any ASU student with a minimum 3.5 GPA where they can get a Bachelor/Masters in five years. If a student comes in with a lot of AP or DE credits they can get the masters in less time.
Univ. of AZ. I will start with no matter how much I try to like Tucson, I just don’t. I always think that I will like Tucson better than Phoenix, and Phoenix keeps winning. The UA campus itself is like an oasis in a dusty area. The campus is green and lush, with an old southwest charm in the Old Main section of buildings. The admin session was relatively brief and to the point. It was pretty much in line with other State schools we have visited. One thing that was a little different was that they actually mentioned many items that were extra cost vs. part of the tuition and fees. A pass to the sports events (football) was additional and if you wanted to go to basketball that was more because the team is GOOD. There were other additional fees, but I didn’t write them all down. The tour was a long one - 90 minutes - and very good. We went through buildings to peek into some classrooms and computer centers and we walked through the library. It was nice to go into the buildings. The meal plan is interesting. At some point the students and admin decided that they didn’t want traditional dining halls, so most of the options that you use your dining dollars on seem to be fast-food like. I did see one all-you-can-eat cafe. I didn’t like the “bad food choice” dining so much. We also toured the honors college. After the awesome ASU honors college, the UA honors college was less impressive. The stats of the students were the highest of any school in AZ, but the honors housing was only OK and small. They guarantee freshmen honors housing, and then it sounds like you’re on your own. The honors dorms are 80% freshmen, so you would be a little out of place as an upperclassman. All and all, I think that UA is an option, but not at the top of the list.
@mtrosemom I was having an online conversation with several longtime virtual friends who are AZ residents about ASU. The feeling I got from their comments was that the campus is mammoth. They described busing systems and areas greater than any college campus I have been on (and I have been on a lot.) The sheer size of their description of the campus made dd cross it off her list. Did it fee, that huge to you? (To give you an idea, she liked the size of UAH, but she is fine with a campus the size of Bama. She does not want a non-campus “city runs right through the middle of it” school like VCU.)
Not sure whether or not she needs to put that one back on her list. It is by far the least appealing locationwise.
@itsgettingreal17 …@WhereIsMyKindle… Thank you. He is super pumped. We thought the team MIGHT have a chance but never dreamed he would do that good. I don’t think I have seen my S smile that big in a LONG time. It was a good day!! @RightCoaster …be sure to google Calculator Applications. It is a rather interesting topic.
@tgirlfriend Congrats to your son and his team. I’m there with @RightCoaster. I need to google what calculator applications is bc I am not familiar with it. But, yay to fabulous accomplishments that they can put on their resumes!
re: lawyers and the law
I work with a tremendous amount of lawyers and it is a brutal field at the moment. I’ve got young attorneys who cannot attend CLE seminars, or networking events they desperately need to grow in their field as their firms will not pay for them. The hours are insane and the culture brutal. Not that some of this is new news, it isn’t. But we are seeing so many locally, coming out of law school, that cannot find jobs. At all.
S is on the border line for A in 2 classes as well, drives me nuts! 4 weeks to get them there. Focusing far more on the nightmare that is Spanish 3 at the moment though.
S17 will need to find other ways to make his policy impact. I would rather he be at a low paying public entity job then take on the debt of law school to end up making the same amount, or worse, not being able to find a job at all.
re: spam. UVM is winning that prize at the moment. Followed by Linfield of all places.
@WhereIsMyKindle thanks!
@carachel2 it has been a huge year of growth. If only he could be calm like that at home!
@Tgirlfriend congrats to your son!!!
@momofdragons congrats to your D! that is wonderful and what a great way to end the year.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek Unless they are ASU grads, they are not going to paint a pretty picture of ASU, like any in-state rival. It is a large campus, and I’ve only looked at it once when I wasn’t even college-hunting (a few years ago). I think the busing situation is to get between campuses, which is not something that typically needs doing, but could probably come into play for classes in Tempe and downtown Phoenix. I can’t really speak with confidence on that. Tempe is nice. We have family in Scottsdale. It’s come off our list since NMF is looking unlikely, but Barrett Honors + NMF is a killer combination, IMO.
Sizes from College Data:
ASU: 592 acres
UAz: 392 acres
Duke: 8,500 acres
FSU: 451 acres
UAH: 400 acres
Bama: 1,000 acres
UofSC: 444 acres
UKy: 813 acres
@Mom2aphysicsgeek, The Tempe campus is about 1 square mile. It was totally walkable and felt like a college campus. It is surrounded by city, but a city street or streets do not cut through campus, so it does feel cohesive and self contained. The Barrett Honors campus is across a busy street adjacent to, but not officially on, the main Tempe campus. I have not been to UAH, so I can’t compare, but I felt it would be a good college experience. It was easier to traverse than UofUtah where I went to grad school or UC Santa Cruz (my undergrad) where you often needed to take a bus or shuttle to get to class on time. I believe that there are ~40K undergrad students at the Tempe campus, and the buses are between the different campuses (Polytech, Downtown, etc.) You do not need a bus to get across the Tempe campus.