While I do not share my S’s position, he is a bit of a college snob. I am well aware that for every kid there are many schools that will provide a great education and experience. it is what you make of it. I just need him to get on that.
re: Summer Plans
Survive the last 2 weeks of school, last night was brutal thanks to a FL final project due today, expected reliance on my adobe products for final packaging that S doesn’t know how to use and a total meltdown when he learned I had a work event and would not be at his disposal. Crash course in InDesign worked well enough that there was minimal work on my end last night when I returned from my event but our printer was a whole 'nother story resulting in an early am kinko’s run. LOL!
Assuming we survive, S will have 1 week at youth church camp, working full time when not at camps, 1 week on campus/live in academic class at WWU, + a german cousin in town for 4 weeks and grandparents visiting. Pretty booked up!
@MonroeMomof3 rising senior college plans are to get started on the Common App, write common app essay, prep for summer interviews, the one week live in class (which should help with major direction/choice), and likely 1 week of east coast college tours smashed in there somehow. I had hoped to do it the last week of august/1st of september but one of the schools takes 3 weeks off of any kind of touring/interviews etc which really mucked up the plan. Back to the drawing board and will have him run it by the new employer to see what works best and hope that flight prices don’t kill me. I think I’d still prefer to do it after his class as he will have more insight into the field (I hope!). Possibly a job shadow/internship and definitely a meeting with a local guy in his potential field for advice and insight and general exposure. Post east coast school tours he will rank what makes the initial application list and map out timing for it along with supplemental essay work and scheduling music auditions where needed or getting tapes made for some. We currently have 10 on the official list, a couple more we may tour simply for adjacency reasons. I expect applications somewhere in the 5-8 range but who really knows at this point.
He will also have summer homework, I just haven’t seen the load yet. If they follow the same options as last year, only one class will have it (AP Lang) so that will be very manageable though I am quite sure he will leave it till later than I like. Last years handout implied they will give them the books for the summer which would be wonderful but I will believe it when I see it.
Last but definitely not least is ACT studying. S17 was supposed to take it last week but fractured his wrist 2 weeks ago so instead will be sitting in Sept for it, again.
We are on the other coast as well so I can’t help on the EE program side but there are definitely some folks here who probably can!
@Ynotgo yes, he had xrays and it is healing well. He had the option of short splint or short cast and chose the cast. It hurt far more than he expected during the x ray (to lay the hand flat) and I think that freaked him out a little. He won’t be able to jump in the lake at camp, but he figured it was best that he not be tempted as with his luck, he’d jump in, whack the wrist on something and injure it again. It was completely his call. He is very happy to have his elbow back!
@srk2017 congrats on the internship, how exciting!
@BusyNapping that’s a riot on the “surprise” Lit test.
@BigPapiofthree I agree with @STEM2017 and @2muchquan. I have a horrid test taker myself and we find ourselves falling short on merit at schools he is competitive for and highly interested in. My take (and honestly S’s as well) is if they don’t like the whole package offered, at the end of the day, it’s not the right fit for my kid either. Their loss. It doesn’t lessen the disappointment but there are so many wonderful options out there I feel my job is to expose my child to the options that make sense for him/us with enough bandwith to move on if one falls short in an area. In my opinion, it’s the school that falls short, not the kid. In that it falls short for MY kid, but may be absolutely perfect for others. The hard work is never negated.
@BigPapiofthree , I totally get that “college snob” thing. My D, too. Every once in a while, I discreetly mention how her state flagship is an excellent school.
Dissapointing SAT I score today. ACT will be our friend.
Do you all take second opinion on wisdom teeth removal? I keep hearing that they get pulled out unnecessarily lot of times. My wife had hers removed a while back, I don’t remember what I fed her :))
@BigPapiofthree I wouldn’t stress it! If he doesn’t make the cut for certain schools, so be it. There are a bazillion other places to go. In fact, I’d say it’s more important to get into a decent MBA school than it is to an undergrad. Most of my friends went to “normal smart” colleges, graduated, and got MBA’s. The grad schools were really helpful in job placement and career trajectory.
Your son might be a “college snob” now, but maybe he’d be just as proud going somewhere that offers him some merit money and/or honors program status. That way you could save some money for grad school, making you feel proud too.
@BigPapiofthree I have yet to get a clear answer about how much the subject tests count for the top schools. I think that compared to the rest of the application, it’s a minor data point. Plus US history is such a vast subject, I would hope that colleges and universities know that there is a degree of luck in the content that is on that test as opposed to math, where you know the formulas and how to apply them, or you don’t.
@eandesmom Your last point above is a great one! It really is the whole package, not just what happened on a random Saturday morning.
@BigPapiofthree I wouldn’t worry about the US History SAT score. That is one that most kids only get 600’s on, even though they ace the AP history exam. D decided not to take it for that reason. And it is definitely about the whole package. If your S is applying to G-town, he should take another SAT subject test that he can get 750+ on, a science preferably if he is a strong science student.
@BigPapiofthree I agree with you, but the reality is that test scores play a far bigger role than most of us realize or think they should be weighted. But I do not think the subject test scores carry as much weight as the main SAT/ACT score.
The summer after 10th grade we went to enroll DE our Ds at a local university. He had not taken the ACT since 8th grade. He took the PSAT in 10th. The admissions officer saw his mid-upper 20s ACT score from 8th grade and sort of sneered at it. She said it was too low for dual enrollment (they required higher scores for DE than for regular enrollment. I was surprised that score in 8th grade wasn’t good enough. She also didn’t care that it was from 8th. The only thing that mattered was the #.) Ironically, we had taken his file with all of his test scores with us. and they did accept his PSAT report for DE.
I learned a lot that day about how admissions officers review information. She looked at the regular standardized test scores first.
His 2 high subject test scores (math 2 and chem) and his 5s on the cal BC and chem were not given as much consideration as his PSAT score.
Only after reviewing all of his test scores did she even look at his transcript. For me, the fact that his transcript wasn’t reviewed until after all of the test scores made a statement in and of itself.
TLDR version: I think the first filtered view of a student is through their major standardized test scores and that is the prism for forming the rest of their opinion when reading the rest of the application. It was rather unnerving for me watching her. I really dislike the emphasis on #s, but I have zero doubt that that is the way it is done at a lot schools.
hmm. idk if the particular school requires all scores or if you can choose, but that is a GREAT idea if its doable–thank you. i’m breathing a bit better now…it is what it is. its anyones guess if i can actually get her on board with timed practice tests this summer so while its sort of an option, i’m guessing its one neither of us will love.
she took one old (cold) and one new (prep class) so as i understand it, they dont superscore across formats which of course, sux for her. i dont get why she had the time management issue on the new…typically she’s a decent test taker and usually done on the early side. it wasnt her day i guess.
but thanks to you all for talking me down off the ledge today…i’m sure it wont be the last time. i honestly feel that the longer i’m here and the more i know, the less i can make sense of the whole thing. i hate all of the changes for this class and i really feel like the whole thing is on a wing and a prayer.
@HiToWaMom I keep trying that one too. Still isn’t working. I think they are going to revoke my alumni status. Not one out of 4. Pathetic.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek no offense but that was one of the more depressing updates/reality checks I’ve ever read. I wonder at the difference between large university versus LAC, or if there is one. Still, it is a good reality check and it is what it is. And what it is…is…a broad net!
UGH>
@eandesmom , Maybe they know. We think we are “discreet” but maybe it’s very obvious that we are trying to be discreet. Haha.
Seems like your S’s list is coming down to a nice size? I’m looking forward to your east coast trip report!
Re:
“I think the first filtered view of a student is through their major standardized test scores and that is the prism for forming the rest of their opinion when reading the rest of the application. It was rather unnerving for me watching her. I really dislike the emphasis on #s, but I have zero doubt that that is the way it is done at a lot schools.”
I agree with you 100% but then wonder what the next filter is, at least at the tippy top schools. I feel that the 800 scores are needed to move past the first round, and absenting a hook, the applicant will not be admitted if he does not clear that bar. No evidence to support this, and of course this varies across schools, but I feel that my son needs those top stats to even be considered, but after that, then what? (Musing out loud here…I do not have an answer.)
Also, do you homeschool? (I have a lousy memory!) If so, do you think that may be part of the increased emphasis on test scores?
@eanesmom I left that office feeling sick to my stomach. It really bothered me just how much he was reduced to a number. The view was most definitely not centered around him being an incredibly gifted and advanced student.
SAT subject test scores: The important thing on the subject tests is percentile, not score. (Really, that’s the case with any standardized college entrance exam.) Focus on the percentile, and ignore the actual score (except insofar as there are cutoffs for certain programs)
Also on that subject…: (SWIDT?) We’e had multiple posters post “disappointing” or “lower than expected” scores on SAT subject, and then listing 800s. I mean, if you were expecting higher than an 800, cool, but I’d be totally happy with it myself.
Testing and the passage of time: My daughter did well enough on the regular SAT and ACT, but her worst score every time was math—and if you look at subscores, it was the basic introductory math that brought it down. She figures it’s because of the time distance between taking that part of it and learning other stuff, similar to @mtrosemom’s son having to reach into deep memory for optics stuff for the physics test.
@CT1417 We do homeschool, but Ds took the math 2 subject test in 9th and the AP cal BC and chem exams (and the chem subject test) in 10th. His ACT score even if it had been taken in 11th would have been in the top 25% (or higher, probably). I had the distinct impression that she was following her standard protocol for renewing applications>>>test score pre-screen, other test scores, transcript.
Fwiw, I disagree with the 800 requirement. There are schools out there that use subject test scores for placement, credit, or graduation requirements. Stanford, for example, only requires a 630 on the Latin exam to fulfill their foreign language graduation requirements. https://registrar.stanford.edu/students/enrolling-courses/general-education-breadth-requirements/language-requirement
Well, reports cards are finally in. D17 should be happy, all A’s except for an A- in Precalc BC. Keeps her unweighted GPA at a 3.96. D19 didn’t do as well on semester exams as she hoped, but 3 A’s, an A- and 2 B’s with her extensive gymnastics training schedule is more than acceptable in my book.
Our GC is hosting an essay workshop for rising seniors this afternoon, so D17 printed out a rough draft of a couple different essays to bring with for discussion. Though I am tempted, I haven’t read any of her essays. If she asks me to review it, I will, but I want this to be her journey.
@RightCoaster D17 and your son sound similar. Though she is good at STEM subjects, she has no interest in medicine or engineering. Her requirement is she wants to make a lot of money, so she is leaning toward business. She is heavily leaning toward Kentucky for the NMF benefits, because, in her words, “A free undergraduate degree is just a smart business decision.” I want her to consider a few other schools, just to give her some options, but it’s hard to fault her logic. I tried to have her look at all the other big NMF schools (OU, OkSt, Ala, UCF, the Texas schools), but she said Kentucky is the only one she could see herself attending. D19 and I are going to be heading to UKy in a couple of weeks for a gymnastics camp and to tour while D17 is visiting relatives, so I’ve asked her to give me a list of things she wants to know. She is definitely interested in the Honors College, and it looks like UKy is building a brand new Honors Dorm that would be open Fall 2017. I’ll give a trip report after we return.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek That’s awful. I don’t want to have my head in the sand, but for my own sanity it’s probably best for me to not look behind the curtain too much (to mix metaphors).
If I may be so presumptuous as to ask a QOTD: What are others’ opinion on a portfolio as part of the applications process for an engineering applicant looking at large state university honors programs? We haven’t done anything so proactive as to open an application to see what’s involved yet :)) but S has done some projects that may be applicable, both on his own and through the engineering curriculum at his HS as well as summer camps. He could probably re-create one or two in video form, but I was thinking more in still photos of two or three projects that would probably be at the general/intro to engineering level. I’m sure they pale in comparison to the robotics and other EC experiences many of the applicants will be bringing in, but is it better to show something than nothing? Or does it not matter for engineering?
D is currently stopped with only one SAT Subject test, Math II. She did well. although not a perfect 800. Looking around the net, the 750 she scored lands in the middle 50 percent of most places that report MATH 2 percentiles. She’s not likely to have an explicit STEM major, so I think that is okay.
Depending upon on where the NMSF number for Illinois comes out, she will take SAT if a confirming score is needed for NMF. If so, I think she is out of time for testing. None of her target schools (as of now) require subject tests but a few recommend and many consider the score. I am uncertain about recommending that she send the score, but I think I will take most colleges at their words that it can only help.
The most confusing to me are the schools that “require” two subject tests or ACT with writing. She has a solid ACT with writing, so we will probably send that. She’s also likely to have some good AP scores to report, but they don’t seem to carry as much weight. 200-800 scale probably seems more precise than 1-5.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek , I didn’t think colleges care about PSAT, other than the NMSF stuff. But I agree with @CT1417 , those ad com must have used filters.
Do you think the essays which the kids spend so much time in writing all got read? Or only if you pass the initial filters?