Seems to me that SAT II test scores should be looked upon differently. Only a small percentage of kids applying to college take them. And its kids applying to top schools who presumably will be much better than your average bear. So those results will tend to be skewed. 800 on SAT Math Level 2 puts you into 88th percentile. You are in 99+th percentile on Level 1 test if you get a 790. For some of the language test, 800s put you further below than the Math Level 2 test. Though maybe schools do not consider that.
Access to DE and upper class APs at my D’s school (must go through the HS to get DE) is based on PSAT scores first, if you cross that hurdle then grades in prerequisites are considered, then teacher recommendations. It is not the whole package as an aggregate, but any one item can disqualify you, luckily the bar is not set too high for AP. My D’s friend, who is a likely NMSF, got push back from her GC when she wanted to take Calc III DE though.
Perhaps they like the PSAT since there is a percentile associated with it as dfbdfb mentioned.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek --Very interesting; thank you.
“I had the distinct impression that she was following her standard protocol for renewing applications>>>test score pre-screen, other test scores, transcript.”
What I meant about the 800 subject test scores was just another filter, a bar to cross. If every other similar applicant has those stats, then you feel the need to present the same. Perhaps misguided.
@SincererLove – essays. I have heard (who know if it is true) that the top 10% and bottom 10% are memorable, and the middle 80% are just neutral. I think neutral for this household. No harm, no foul. But very angst-provoking for something that is probably not all that significant in the scheme. But since we do not know what truly matters to any one AdCom, everyone has to go all-in.
@dfbdfb I disagree that the subject test percentiles are important. For example, Math 2, 800/800 is only 81% percentile. 81st percentile in a vacuum seems just ok, but since 800 is the highest score possible, its a great score.
@srk2017 No 2nd opinion for S on the wisdom teeth. I saw the x-rays and saw how the WT were pointed at the roots of S’s permanent molars. I didn’t want to risk the 1,000’s of $$ in orthodontics. Out they came…maybe that’s why the SAT subject test score was lower than hoped. The wisdom was removed??
So, an interesting topic for discussion given all this talk about the importance of test scores . . .
QOTD: Do you think colleges should put more weight on grades or test scores and why? (I’ll weigh in later)
Re: second opinion on wisdom teeth. Both the boys’ dentist and orthodontist suggested wisdom teeth extraction, so I felt I had two opinions before I even got to the oral surgeon. Most pleasant surprise was that our dental plan had an in-network benefit and that oral surgeon was a participating provider.
Now, if I could just convince older son to keep wearing his retainer at night…
So many ups and downs lately! Congratulations to all your kiddos on internships, better casts, test scores, etc. Lots of good news to read today. We got SAT subject scores back today and were pretty pleased. 770 on Biology (88th percentile) and 750 on Literature (90th percentile). She was happy because she thought she did poorly on bio. She opted out of Math II b/c math is not really her thing–she does decently but scores much higher in other subjects. I don’t think that any of the schools that we might consider require the Math II, and many don’t require SAT subject tests at all. So I think we’re good there.
On the flip side, she is currently at Girls State and is hating it. As in, “please come and pick me up early” hating it. I’m encouraging her to stick it out, but it is hard. She’s a very liberal kid who identifies strongly with the LGBT community and she very upset about the Orlando shooting. Plop her into the middle of a group of very conservative girls who are pro-gun-ownership, anti-choice and who feel that homosexuality is a sin and she’s one very unhappy girl.
I’m reminding her that learning how to interact with others who don’t share her views is a valuable life skill, and that nothing actually horrible is happening to her. But hearing your kid so sad and lonely is hard. Thank goodness she got decent test scores to pep her up a bit. Saturday can’t come soon enough for any of us here, though.
@picklesarenice hugs for your D. My D sounds like yours and would be miserable too.
@picklesarenice oh that is awful. I am so sorry. Was that expected going into it? It is a valuable life skill and some thrive on that challenge and others feel isolated. Huge hugs. My son would be arguing up a storm but it wouldn’t be a fun experience on the whole.
@Sincerelove My ds was only a rising 11th grader applying for DE, not freshman enrollment. She was looking for a #. Normally, the PSAT is not looked at by universities. She was willing to use it b/c it crossed the threshold # she was looking for. That number was the first hurdle that had to be crossed before she was willing to even look at everything else.
I absolutely believe that they read essays of kids who pass initial filters. Whether or not they read essays of all applicants…that I do doubt. I think minute differences in test scores don’t matter. I personally believe that they have an initial hurdle before applications get a cursory review. The cursory review filters out more and then the remaining applications get thoroughly reviewed. Whether that is true or not…no idea. But that is what I perceive the process as looking like after going through it multiple times with my kids.
@CaucAsianDad Except he had an ACT score. I can’t remember what it was exactly, and I am too lazy to go dig through my records, but I think his composite was a 26 (his math score was high. that I do remember.) I had thought achieving those scores as an 8th grader was pretty good and that they would recognize that it was an 8th grade score. Obviously not. (Later I found out that they required a 28 ACT to DE.) His PSAT crossed whatever the SAT threshold they required.
In terms of what matters most per @itsgettingreal17’s question. I think they both matter. I think test scores are an initial filter. I also think a lot of schools, especially those with SSAR (self-reporting academic records), use a formula to calculate an additional #. (Those schools that re-calculate GPAs according to their own formula are also probably creating an additional filtering # of some sort.)
I think once a student crosses a certain threshold, everything probably becomes more holistic and evaluated more thoroughly and those who make that cut are taken to committee.
@mtrosemom LOL! We tease our Aspie (who has 7 wisdom teeth) that when he was told to get in line for wisdom he got confused and got in the wisdom teeth line twice! 
I also believe what people say, your scores open the door, everything else invite you inside.
I think essay is a major part of that everything else. It is the glue to tie all of your ECs, scores, recommendations, etc together. It needs to allow people to picture out the real you ( that they like).
QOTD: My vote is for grades, because it takes sustained ‘grit’ to keep those in good shape. Testing involves some knowledge, some luck, some dumb luck, and occasionally some cheating (not our kiddos of course). All the things I’ve been hearing in the last 12 months regarding standardized testing has turned me off. Plus, I think they’ve shown a correlation between $$ and test scores, so there’s that. Just my opinion.
D and I are preparing to go (mostly) off the grid for 8-9 days on our mission trip to Ky. Not sure what I’m going to do without my CC fix.
I think when a school list something as Very Important on the Common Data Set and it is quantifiable, it is a weed out filter.
@whataboutcollege My D’s safety is essay optional and auto-admit based on stats, so I think the essay is more important to schools that have a lot of applicants with good enough stats. I mean why draw an arbitrary line at a certain SAT score if you know that applicant would probably succeed if admitted, use the essay as the selection tool when from a pool of highly qualified candidates. I think the essay vs stats is a continuum and it is important to know where the schools you apply to fits on that continuum.
Issue with grades is trying to compare kids from different schools. Some schools inflate. Others do not. How do you compare?
With test scores (SAT, ACT and APs), you have all kids taking the same tests (at least for the SAT and ACT and for the same AP tests) so comparisons are easier to make across different schools.
I would think that for many colleges (though not the top ones), high scores are enough to get admitted. Nothing else is really considered. For other kids at those colleges, scores are enough to block admission (absent a hook of some sort). For the rest of the applicants, colleges look at ECs, essays, work experience, etc.
I don’t think 1 subject test in history is going to make or break an application. Unless the student is majoring in History.
Summer plans DS17 is currently taking “Wall street on West Peachtree” at Georgia Tech. It’s one week and they learn about financial literacy, investing, hedging and trading. So far he seems to really like it. We figured that no matter what major he ends up in it was a good idea to know something about how to make/save money.
QOTF If only compare standard tests and GPAs, I would vote for standard tests as it is standardized to the degree possible. It is very hard to compare GPAs within school (different rigor) already, even more so across schools.
Schools know HSs and their course rigor, generally. Also, many/most convert grades to their own GPA today. I don’t think it’s as big a deal as people think, and is probably mostly an automated process that the AOs are likely unaware of, as it happens before they get involved.
OK, that’s how I see the process happening. I have no facts to back it up 
Univ of Oklahoma (OU) trip report:
Just talked to S and he is very enthusiastic about OU. His visit was coordinated by the National Merit department. The first event was a tour of the campus. He said the campus is very pretty and he enjoyed the tour. It was more of a “traditional” (my word) campus than some of the others he has visited. He was surprised they didn’t play up their football more like they did at Univ. of Arizona, but he was good with that (not a big sports, rah-rah kid). He said that there were two style of dorms; suite style with two 2-person rooms, and standard corridor style rooms with a shared bath (that is cleaned by others he said). And they are developing upperclassmen apartments so upperclassmen can live on campus if they want to. After the tour he met with the honor college coordinator. He said that while he didn’t learn that much about the honors college, the coordinator was very passionate about the students in the program. I think she talked more about student achievement than the honors curriculum, and that impressed him. The Honors College is in a separate building and has a dorm. Honors students are given preference for the dorm, but any student can request living there.
They had lunch at a nearby Vietnamese restaurant, where he “over-ate a bit”. I think that the on campus dining options were closed. Next was a tour of the engineering college. S was very impressed by the engineering program. He said there was a lot of team and group work, and he likes the collaborative approach. And they have robotics, which H and I seem to care more about than S does. The CS department is in the school of engineering. He then met with the NM coordinator. She went over how the program works, how the scholarships stack, and how they help the kids who are in the program. He got a free OU tee shirt too. NM has a floor in one of the dorms, and he was interested in living on that floor. Best of all, if you are NMF and applying to honors, you may write NMF in lieu of the essay! His final visits were with a CS professor and the dean of the engineering department. He learned about internships and co-op opportunities. Apparently there are a lot of opportunities because OKC is relatively close.
Overall, my S was very, very impressed by OU. He said he liked it a little more than ASU even maybe. The honors college facilities aren’t as good as ASU, but the NM Scholars program really wooed him. He said the day they put together for him was top notch.
And, FWIW, S was very happy with his SAT physics test score. He did better than he had expected to do given that there were so many optics questions and he was super rusty in optics. All and all, a good day.