I like @payn4ward’s strategy but do agree enough needs to be understood about the college in question that it comes through that the student understands it and sees themselves there for whatever reason. I do think it is less about why the student things x school is so great and more about why the student would be an asset to the school but it does require careful framing. Interestingly enough with all the supplements we have, not one is a why “xx” school. We do have a why “xx” academic program though…
QOTD2
Our school requests the ask not happen until fall although I believe all the identified teachers have a heads up. With this latest purge we’ve cut the LOR’s by quite a bit. The current list only has one school that asks for 2, most are one or optional (for optional I assume 1 or 2 is completely up to you!). I think the challenge we will have is identifying which should be the primary LOR for the bulk that want only 1. Choices at the moment are US History, PreCalc and English/Drama. I am unclear if you can change which LOR for which school and for this, it would be nice to be able to pick and choose as best fits the various programs at the schools but I have no idea.
@itsgettingreal17 QOTD: I guess I’d vote test scores since my kids are the kind that test well! (Behold my bias)
@Mom2aphysicsgeek@what???!! my S wanted to dispute a question on his learners driving permit exam because he insisted there was bad physics involved. I had to talk him down.
I would vote for balance between GPA, test scores, ECs and LORs. Most schools probably know which high schools inflate grades and how rigor the course work is based on past admissions and how those students did in college. Everyone says colleges don’t look for perfect test scores but lot kids keep taking ACT & SAT to get perfect score. My complaint is too much emphasis on essays which became an industry now. Also, I would say colleges should limit ECs to 2 or 3 just like LORs, that will force kids to focus on one or two ECs in stead of going for multiple. Some of the kids are involved in half dozen clubs @ school!
Maybe colleges should request all test scores be submitted so a school can see if a kid took a test five times to get a nearly perfect score! That could be an eye opener. S is t the kind of kid to allow me to corral (force) him to continually take standardized tests. He has a classmate who’s mom has made her take the math 2 SAT test multiple times in the quest for the perfect 800. Poor kid, she’s still trying.
Oooohhh, @srk2017 I like the limit of 2-3 ECs…maybe one or two more. I will say, though, I think the essays should be important…even more than they are today. I know they’re hard to deal with when you’ve got 20K+ applicants…but I think they say a lot. I wouldn’t mind them ALL being: “Why X” or something fun like UChicago. I think the 5 CA prompts are lame.
Popping in, as a parent of a D13 and D16, to say how much things can change in a short time!
D13, since beginning college, has had several course corrections until settling on her major junior year. What she is majoring in now, has nothing to do with what she was planning on studying freshman year.
D16 was firmly set on her major during application season, and even vetoed a big merit school from her short list because it did not have her major. She announced just this week a major course correction. I had no idea she was even thinking about such a big change. Her reasoning is sound, and indicates she is looking ahead at some balance and avoiding burn-out.
I was just talking to another parent last night whose daughter changed majors her freshman year, so different it required applying to a different college within the university.
So, as you are stressing, and making your spreadsheets, breathe and remember it can all change in a short time! All will be well!
@Mom2aphysicsgeek I’m sure the AO’s will follow the path of least resistance and use the CB provided concordance tables (much to the ACT’s chagrin). The real question: will they use them correctly…
On GPA and Test Scores, I lean more toward GPA (and class rigor), but that’s because I’ve know way too many kids with high test scores, that had poor study habits and struggled in college.
I really HATE holistic admissions, but that’s really the best option for highly selective schools…GPA and test scores can be gamed, so there is value in looking at other factors.
New SAT - As I’ve said on other threads, I don’t think colleges will be converting the new SAT to the old or to ACT. The three tests are just very different. Anecdotal evidence is that the concordance charts are off. Based on the PSAT scores, I believe CB overestimated how well they thought students would do on the new SAT. But the scores, at least at the high end, are not as high as CB expected. So the concordance charts overly penalizes new SAT scores. The test prep gurus seem to agree. In my personal opinion, I think that students submitting new SAT scores will be evaluated in comparison to other new SAT scorers without conversion and to old SAT scorers without conversion, so as absolute numbers.
LORS - D has 3 lined up, in addition to counselor rec, recs from AP English, BC Calc, and AP Chem teachers. Most schools only want 2, so we will pick and choose among those depending on the school. All three will be strong recs as she did really well in the classes and the teachers like her and wrote strong recs for her for summer programs. D will send the formal ask over the summer…the teachers have asked her to submit a few things in an email to them over the summer and the letters will be ready to go before school starts. We are just waiting on AP scores to finalize her resume to send to them.
“Why Us” essays - I agree that it is more about how the student would be an asset to the school than why the student is in love with the school. But it is also an opportunity to demonstrate knowledge of the institution in explaining why the student would be an asset. Think in terms of how the student would contribute to the school community and culture. I don’t know yet how many of D’s schools have such a supplement. I am only aware of 1 so far.
As for the question I posed yesterday about test scores v. GPA’s, I think both are important, with the test scores being a check on the GPA, especially where the adcom is not familiar with the school’s curriculum and grading. Texas’s 7% rule is a good example of why GPA alone is a poor indicator of college readiness. Too many students with high GPA’s are being admitted under the 7% and 10% rule, but lack the proper foundation to exceed at the flagships. Consideration of their standardized tests would have shed light on the GPA. I’ve seen that on CC as well, with very high GPA kids reporting very low standardized test scores, or scores that are decent but low relative to their GPA.
Essay on Why College XYZ?
I think the trick is to hit a good balance between why you are good for the school and vice versa. Show your strengths and passions and progress you’ve made in areas important to the school (academic and non-academic). Show how College XYZ will help you maximize your potential in these areas through the support and resources they offer, which other schools may not. The school wants to see that you are a good fit because the student and the school share long-term goals and each will help the other achieve these goals.
I agree 100% with @snoozn regarding Why Colllege XYZ letter. Focus on things you have an interest in, things the school does well,mention some activities you’d like to be involved with at school, and how the college can help you reach your future goals.
LORs - D17 will have one from the GC and from her Math and English teachers from junior year. Her school is very organized about the college process. They have a spring semester class that discusses every aspect of college apps and they have to generate a short (or not so short) college list by the end of spring term as well as submitting a resume and a brag sheet.
Standardized tests: We told her that her SAT scores were more than fine (the strongest section was the essay where she got a perfect score!) She would like to try one more time so as to have no future regrets and is going to prep for the ACT this summer. I find the whole SAT transition incredibly frustrating as it’s unclear what the new scores mean and how colleges will interpret them. If she had these numbers for the old SAT, she’d have no (or fewer) doubts if they are “good enough.” People seem to agree that the “national sample” % is probably inflated while the “user sample” % is probably too harsh. If I had been more knowledgeable about the implications of this transition earlier, I would have had her take the old format. Hindsight and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee!
In comparison, it’s pretty clear what a “good” score on the ACT is. Her sophomore PLAN results without prep were consistent in % terms with the new SAT results so we are hoping that with some summer prep, she can do a bit better than that on the ACT and can call it a day.
FWIW, I think that taking each test once and then perhaps repeating the one that yielded the best results should be enough. I feel badly for kids who are under pressure to take the test 3-4 times or more in search of that perfect score. What a nightmare.
Grades - D17’s school is rigorous but has no AP, no IB, no weighting, no ranking. UW GPA goes up to 4.3 (A+) While her GPA is quite high, she would not fare well on a strictly by the numbers admissions system that recalculates GPA according to the criteria that her school doesn’t have. That said, a few kids every year get into top 20 schools (not her goal) and many get merit money in top 50-100 schools (family goal).
On why X college? - the word limits seem daunting. How much can you really say in 250 words? Regarding content, yes, a balance of what does the student contribute and what draws the student sounds ideal.
DS got his SAT I back and it was a little disappointing, significantly lower than what the PSAT predicted. It was 1270 FWIW. That’s still in the range of what he needs to get into his target schools but he’s hunting for merit aid and especially for guaranteed scholarships at places like U Alabama Huntsville. So, although what @itsgettingreal17 says may be true (with respect to schools comparing the SAT scores with other applicants rather than absolute numbers) that won’t help DS when he needs an absolute number to get the guaranteed full tuition.
In other words, it looks like we’ll be doing it again in the fall. 8-|
@Midwest67 – I agree with you about students changing their minds once they actually start studying the college coursework they thought they were interested in studying while still in high school. My HS Jr is a bit too focused on the PHD work of each CS prof at every school and I try to suggest that while he will probably remain in CS, his area of interest may shift once he is at college. In other words, take a step back and look at this through a slightly wider lens.
@snoozn – agree completely: “The school wants to see that you are a good fit because the student and the school share long-term goals and each will help the other achieve these goals.”
@itsgettingreal17 – when you say she will pick from the three LORs, how will she accomplish that? I recall that my older son signed something (FERPA maybe?) waiving his right to read the LORs. Further, I never knew how it was decided which LOR would be sent from Naviance to CA. He had one school that only accepted one teacher LOR. I have no idea which of the two LORs loaded into Naviance ended up being sent to that school.
As to what to do with additional LORs…there are colleges that will allow for upload of more than two LORs. Not most colleges, but I definitely recall some from our last application cycle.
Also, my son’s GC suggested that he ask for ‘informal’ LORs from EC teachers. No more than a few lines in email from the EC teacher to son’s GC. She could then use those quotes in her GC LOR.
I cannot manage to respond to more than a few topics at one time and am impressed by those of you who can use bold and cover ten topics!
Last day of school here…with graduation this afternoon. Just heard the elementary school bus drive by for the last time until late August.
I am also against taking standardized tests multiple time for perfect scores but becoming more common. Even after getting perfect score in SAT or ACT, some are taking the other one to show that they are perfect in everything! later they will start SAT/ACT online training website
When D had her first SAT (Oct '15) result, it was not ideal but good enough. The total number was ok but CR was a little low (700) for her ideal schools. In January, 2 weeks before the test, she was motivated to go again hoping for a 750 on CR. It was a crazy decision. I supported her because I always trust her testing capability :D. More importantly it is just 2 weeks and won’t take a lot of her time. My H strongly againsted it and said that was a bad decision. Thank god for the nor’easter that pushed the test to Feb and D got what she wanted and more. I do agree it doesn’t make sense to keep trying for the perfect score.
S is t the kind of kid to allow me to corral (force) him to continually take standardized tests. He has a classmate who’s mom has made her take the math 2 SAT test multiple times in the quest for the perfect 800. Poor kid, she’s still trying.
Now one scored 500 runs in one innings though so far. 400+ is the highest!