@dadotwoboys good point on the “award” of AP Scholar or AP Scholar with Distinction. After a few years out, HS GPA drops off the resume, but AP Scholar, NMF, and a few others do remain - indicating high performance.
@DiotimaDM - I sure hope you are right about this:
We are in the same boat with a 223 in CA. We are planning summer visits on the assumption that D will be NMSF, but we’ll have to scramble a bit if it turns out not to be so.
@DiotimaDM and @GertrudeMcFuzz , we are in WA state and S18 has that 223 SI as well. We are also thinking it hopefully can’t go up from 220 this year to 224 next year, but the top states are at 222 this year, so I do think it possible they could go to 223 or 224, just not ours (hopefully!!).
“I’d like to add a different perspective on AP classes. To me, college is a time to explore, and while the “relief” of extra credits received though IB, AP or DE can facilitate that by giving priority for registration in some schools, or freeing up academic time, the use of APs to “take care of” Core requirements and more also can somewhat defeat the idea of a broad – and deep – education. It is the rare high school course that can address a subject as deeply and as well as its college course counterpart, especially where a seminar-style college class develops deep conversation about the subject at hand.”
@SimplerWasBetter, I think this one is really “Your Mileage May Vary.” My D who is now a sophomore in college was able to skip the core math requirement because of her AP score in CalcBC. She is a humanities girl through and through, and really will never need that level of math in her personal or professional life. It freed up her time to take classes she had no previous exposure to - in her instance, it was econ - which really was a great thing for her. She’s double majoring, so without that credit, I don’t know that she would ever have found time in her schedule for that.
Well @suzy100 I would absolutely agree in BC Calc. You are right. MV Calc (not AP but offered at our HS) is one ALL the kids advise taking again in college IF it’s a math requirement. And even with that caveat, still important to strive for balance. :-). Thx for that good point!
Yes, I agree it depends on the kid, major, etc.
My D has a set amount of prerequisites to take, having AP credit allowed her to take fewer credits in the semesters where she had 2 science classes with labs, and add foreign language and ASL.
My son on the other hand, is more interested in Humanities, and he will be taking gen eds in college.
Re:SI of 223 - You’ll have to google for this because I’m not allowed to post a link, so search for
“Historical National Merit Cutoffs on Old and New Scale.”
The old PSAT went to 240, but the new PSAT only goes to 228. If you look at the table provided in the article, the old scale crosses the new right at 220 and 221. For me, it was particularly illuminating to look at what 222 on the new PSAT really means on the old scale, namely anywhere from 224 - 226. The top of 222 is already a point higher than any of the old cutoffs, so just to break out of 222, the cutoff will have to move higher than it’s ever been before, but that still only takes us to 223, and probably only for MD and DC.
Old => New
219 = 220
220 = 220
221 = 221
222 = 221
223 = 221
224 = 222
225 = 222
226 = 222
Last year (meaning the last year of the old PSAT), I saw plenty of people saying “225 is safe anywhere.” Well, that 225 is now smack in the middle of 222. Moving from 221 to 222 doesn’t sound like much, and on the old scale, it’s not. It’s very different if you think about it as moving from 221 to 224 on the old scale, Extrapolating from the table, a new 223 probably encompasses old 227, 228 and maybe 229. New 224, probably starts at 229/230 and might go as high as 233.
So if old 225 was safe everywhere, it’s hard to imagine the new equivalent moving to 230 or above. The banding is very different and much wider on the new scale. It’s like measuring in feet and then converting to yards.
Anyhow, I’m no expert, but once I understood the compression inherent in the new scale, it made me feel a lot safer about 223. This year’s 223 is very different from last year’s 223.
Yes, it’s an entirely different test, but we’re still talking about increments that are three times their previous size.
@DiotimaDM - good point about the compression factor. I think I just have to keep telling myself that CC is a self-selected group of people and probably not indicative of the general high school population. It seems like here 223 is a solidly “average” score, which made me nervous about how much of an increase in scores would be seen overall this year. Knowing that they have to make the cutoffs to keep only a certain number of kids and seeing all the very high scores here made it seem like 223 might not be as great as we thought it was. Thanks for the encouragement that it should hold up!
Wasn’t October 2015 the first year for the new PSAT?
Yes, October 2015 was the new test.
“CC is a self-selected group of people and probably not indicative of the general high school population.”
Amen.
I’ve found it interesting that many of my D’s academic peers, and those she sees as “smarter than her” seemingly underperformed on the PSAT. Many of them casually say they just didn’t study for it. In her school (and likely in others), the NMSFs will not necessarily represent the whole of the highest achievers, but the high achievers who prioritized preparing for the test.
@RoonilWazlib99 wow! how did you find out all of that info about how APs will be used by each college? I’ve looked into AP French at a few schools and figured that out (just looked at foreign language department page for each college). Not sure how to think about all of the rest (AP Lang and AP Lit for example - would we even want our kids to “test out” of English? seems like they should take writing and reading classes in college no matter what their major).
Maybe it’s easier to figure it out if the student’s major is more decided. If they are a humanities major, then maybe AP Calc will count for something but then I’m assuming most humanities majors still have to take some stats. Or, maybe if the student is an engineering major, they could use APUSH to fulfill some sort of core requirement. All seems a bit hard to know much ahead of time.
@homerdog Most colleges have a chart for AP/IB credit. Google " AP credit" and you should find what you’re looking for.
As your child narrows their list of colleges, you can then look at what APs they accept for credit (AP score =,how many credits) and if it counts toward the major or not…Sometimes colleges limit the use of AP credit to satisfy perquisite requirements in some way (you need a 5 for the prereq, but if your major doesn’t require the advanced course the AP can count toward meeting a distributional requirement). Every college is different. But their information is pretty easy to find. I just found the AP credit pages by googling “AP Credit” and the schools name.
cross-posted with @ShrimpBurrito Sorry.
Yep, my D’s school lists each AP, and what college class you can get credit for with a score of 3,4,5 (depends on subject).
Also keep in mind that for DE, some schools/universities/colleges have policies that restrict awarding (accepting as transfer) college credit for college courses taken before high school diploma received. Others restrict DE by awarding credit only if taken at the college campus, but not if taken in the high school building. So if u r looking for college credit, then when weighing which courses to take, consider all the policies of the school’s you are considering.
Macy’s Scholarship for NMSF
Was helping my wife with her Macy’s Insite last night and stumbled onto the Macy’s Scholarship tab. Glad I did as I was shocked to find out that the cut off to apply for the Macy’s Scholarship Fall 2018 HS graduates is March 31 of this year, well over a year before the 2018 students graduate. The scholarship is $1000 per year for four years and is for children of Macy’s employees. The criteria used seems mainly NMSF, but the scholarship deadline is months before the NMSF cut offs are released.
Never thought scholarship applications had deadlines so far in advance, but wow Macy’s does. I filled out the short online application for my daughter in a few minutes and told my wife she has to keep working at Macy’s for at least another year…
If you are a Macy’s employee or know of one with a 2018 HS graduate, pass along the upcoming surprising deadline.
@homerdog - what everyone else said. Just Google “College Name” and AP Credit or IB credit and you should find a page dedicated to how they grant credits or advanced standing.
@sekere62 - Isn’t that crazy?! My husband works at a company that has a NMSF scholarship and he had to sign S18 up before the PSAT in the fall to qualify! Two years before he would use the scholarship!
@RoonilWazlib99 - would you mind sharing which schools those are? My daughter is an IB student as well, and I’m curious if any of those schools happen to be on our list, too!