@suzy100 Thanks - - we are heading to visit those this week 
But I think those are more match than safety.
@ booajo Thanks, Lawrence looks like a good one for her to consider if we can get there to visit.
@homerdog Thanks - Yes, Dickinson is on our list to visit this summer. My friend’s daughter loved Denison- good idea Grinnell looks like it only takes 25% so I don’t think that would be a “safety”. Richmond is further south than she would like. Her view is the colder the better so maybe Rochester. Or McGill. Anyone know anything about McGill. I think that could be a really exciting place to go to school - French speaking Montreal.
So I finally got to tag along on a tour! H, D & I went to tour the Univ of Redlands yesterday. It’s one of four schools currently on the list that are in the “home region” for us.
Our tour was scheduled for 12:30, but we arrived on campus at about 10:30 to begin getting our own getting acquainted process. The campus is really beautiful. Just the right number of trees, a large grassy quad, a mix of stately older buildings and new modern buildings that somehow blended very well together. Not a brick in sight. (A good thing as brick in California is a big no-no for D) We headed straight for the student center area, which contained the bookstore, 3 dining options and a lounge area with student org offices. There was a fountain on one end, then sort that you could walk right through if you are so inclined (and I imagine on those 100 degree days they get in the fall you might be!), and a lot of nice outdoor seating. It looked like a nice place to hang out. On the opposite end was the library. The lower level of the library was home to an open casual study area, a computer lab area, and a coffee shop. The open high ceilings made the area very noisy, but I thought the area looked comfortable to hang out in and this was the area we saw the most students. We ventured up to the upper levels of the library and saw a wide variety of seating options available on all floors, from couches to table to desks, fewer students as we went up.
Then we decided to grab lunch. We opted for the main dining hall. There were a lot of different stations, but they do an a la carte payment system and had a cash register at each station, it was really confusing to figure out 1) what was available at each station 2) who wanted to go to which station 3) how we would pay. We ended up just paying separately for each thing. We were having an early lunch and it was pretty quiet when we were there, so aside from the strange way they set up their food, the room again had high ceilings and the acoustics were crazy, I kept thinking you probably can barely hear anything when this room is full. The food was OK but they’d had better.
After lunch, we still had time so we wandered over to some nearby science buildings and wandered through, looking at posters, and looking in windows. H found classrooms that had no classes and had D look in the window so she could see the desks. Then it was time to head back over for our tour. They started with a 30 min info session which covered (I am told) all the same things they all cover - what is a liberal arts education? what is holistic admissions? how do we look at your app?
They broke us into 4 small tour groups, which was nice, there were only 2 other families in our group so it wasn’t hard to keep up or hear the guide at any point. The tour was about an hour and ranged over most of the campus with some of the more outlying parts merely pointed out. Some take-aways: Business-type majors seem big here, there were 4 guides, all of them had either a business related major or minor; community service is an important part of the culture as well, they have a service requirement for graduation; they require?/encourage living on campus all 4 years - though they say they require it, they don’t have 100% of their students living on campus so they are letting some go off campus, but they do have a lot of options for on campus living and the room we saw was nice, D & H said it was on the larger side for the ones they had seen; they have a 4-4-1 schedule with a “May term” that allows for some unique opportunities abroad as well as on campus or in the community; the campus seemed really “sleepy” to me, but I haven’t seen any of the others so I wasn’t sure, but it seemed like there was hardly anyone around. The most people we saw were in the library cafe area. Otherwise we would see maybe one or two students here or there. It seemed odd especially because it was a beautiful day when I would expect more students to be outside.
Final analysis: D liked that it was an LAC style school close to home. She had some concerns, but none of those outweighed those first two factors. For H & I, those concerns definitely outweigh those factors, but the school stays on the list. H really felt that some of the other schools they’d seen really offered a “more bang for your buck” type situation.
Hi @aynrandfan ! I can help you out with McGill and Rochester, as I’ve visited both recently with my D. (McGill twice, actually). I did a visit report for McGill on this thread a few pages back. Date was around March 12-14, if that helps.
I’ll summarize here though too. Montreal is the ultimate college town. It’s safe, easy to get around, artsy, friendly, beautiful, with several universities downtown, so students are everywhere. Language of instruction at McGill is English, but the city is a wonderful place to practice your French.
The university is big (25k undergrads or so) and rather hands-off. They treat students as adults, for better or worse. The successful student at McGill is independent and mature. Classes are tough. There is support for students, but you have to seek it out. It’s ideal for the self-starter looking for a challenge.
Admissions at McGill is solely stats-based. I hesitate to call it a safety for your D (or anyone) as US applications skyrocketed this year and it’s unclear how that affected minimum requirements.
My D loves McGill–one of her top three.
So, Rochester. My D really liked it as well (as did I). UR is very academically focused. The appeal there isn’t the city, or the weather, or fancy dorms, or the sports, it’s the academic opportunities, so the students who apply there tend to be very serious about their studies. Their music school is fantastic from what I understand. I really, really like the way their curriculum is set up, and the research opportunities are a big selling point for many. They make a big deal about collaboration. Study abroad is big, and they have a suprisingly large international representation. Rochester students tend to be on the nerdy/fun side.
So there’s the quick and dirty version. Let me know if you have more specific questions. Your D sounds amazing! I’m sure she’ll succeed wherever she lands. :)>-
Love reading the posts re the college visits! Will drop DD’18 off at the airport tomorrow for her trip to the East Coast to visit a few schools. We’ll see how it goes?
Re: UNM and that comfortable feeling - UNM feels like a Goldilocks school for us. It’s far enough from home to be “away”, but it’s still only a (long) day’s drive. It’s similar enough to California climate, culture and geography to feel a little familiar and a little homey, but different enough to feel like a new adventure in a new place. ABQ is a bigger city than S has ever been in, but not so big that it was intimidating or off-putting to him like Dallas was.
If anyone is planning to visit UNM, be aware that they will take you on a tour of the university, and then refer you to the housing office for a second tour. Any appointments you’d like to make with specific departments you have to make yourself. They don’t set it all up for you like UTD, OU, etc.
Hi @shrimpburrito and thank you for the great info! It will be interesting to see how hard it will be for our d’s trying for McGill. Interesting that it may be more difficult to get in this year. I guess that may translate to less competition for entry to schools in the states, right? Do u know the average class size? That was my one concern for my daughter. She enjoys her intensive discussion classes and liked the idea of tutorials at Williams which are structured with 2 students and a professor. She likes the concept of experiential learning - less being lectured at, more conversation and collaboration with professors and peers. I got the feeling that would not be her experience if she went to McGill but might be made up for by the experience of using her French and living in such an exciting environment. She is independent and mature. Very exciting possibilities for our D’s! The last time I was at Rochester was when I applied 100 years ago. I loved the tunnels and the thought of never having to go outside when the weather is bad. Do they still have those? Thanks again for your thoughtful input. I’m new to the CC community except for a brief look around for my middle son almost a decade ago. I am very grateful for the kindly offered wealth of information and hope some of what I pick up along the way helps others.
@aynrandfan : Skidmore, Fordham, Rochester, etc.
UNM sounds like my dream school…ohhhh to be young again!
@aynrandfan and anyone else whose S or D has an interest in creative writing…
What kind of thing the student might want to write is pretty important. Most (not all) Creative Writing departments will focus on things like literary fiction, poetry and creative non-fiction. If the student wants to write genre fiction (also called category fiction) - sci-fi, fantasy, thrillers, mysteries, romance, etc., then many (not all) Creative Writing programs will be a poor fit because that kind of fiction is looked down upon and sometimes actively discouraged.
I recently mentored a very talented young writer who was ready to give up entirely because she wanted to write sci-fi, fantasy and graphic novels and her department, from the professors to the students in her critique groups, kept telling her that her stuff sucked. The professors used (slightly) more diplomatic words for it, but essentially the message was that sci-fi and the like are for hacks who aren’t good enough to write lit fic.
Here’s a thread that may be of help to any budding genre fiction writers. There are lots of resources listed on page two, so don’t give up after the first few posts. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1971586-low-gpa-to-be-a-writer-p1.html
Disclaimer: I’m not trying to dis Creative Writing departments. It’s a fit thing.
@aynrandfan Isn’t CC great? I have learned SO much here.
Yes, UR still has the tunnels! They have beautiful artwork on the walls. If I recall correctly, the tunnels do not go to the dorms for security reasons. Still great, though. The fact that the students are all weather wimps seems to be a running joke.
“She enjoys her intensive discussion classes and liked the idea of tutorials at Williams which are structured with 2 students and a professor. She likes the concept of experiential learning - less being lectured at, more conversation and collaboration with professors and peers.”
McGill is the complete opposite, lol. At least for the lower level classes that my D visited in March. They ranged in size from ~50 to 400 students. The largest lecture hall seats 600+. I’ve been told that class sizes get smaller as you progress. The standard formula seems to be large lecture two hours a week, then a smaller tutorial (~30 students) one hour a week, usually with a TA. I don’t know how their creative writing program is set up, though. If your D is to seriously consider it, it would be wise to visit, since it’s so different from what she knows she likes.
I will say that it’s easy to forgive the large class sizes when you take into account all of the amazing advantages, like the incredibly diverse student body and cultural opportunities in Montreal. My D too is drawn to very different schools, for different reasons. In the end she’ll have to decide what is most important to her.
Funny about the how-far-away-from-home thing. My D has some serious wanderlust and says she wants to go somewhere very new and different for college. I mean, her top three are in another country. Yet, she is hesitant to apply anywhere close to home, as she is afraid she’ll chicken out at the last minute. 
Coupla more tidbits about UTD before I forget them.
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Outside scholarships DO stack as long as they are not earmarked for tuition and fees only.
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The no-you’re-not guy didn’t like it / seemed offended when I asked what the annual out-of-pocket was for the NMF package. Those were his exact words - “I don’t like it when people ask me that.” He then said there was no way to answer it because it depends on things like the cost of airfare home and how many steak dinners the kid wants to eat. Again, steak dinners is a quote. I just sort of noted his objection and moved on, but inside I was all “Well, fine, Mr. Getting-a-PHD-in-Finance, but the little people can’t budget if they don’t have the numbers.” He did agree that it’s very close to a full ride. I think it’s about a thousand or so shy, not including airfare or steak dinners.
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With regard to McDermott vs NMF, he said that while the McDermott financial package is larger, it comes with more restrictions and a little less freedom. NMFs are invited to attend operas and symphonies; McDermotts are required to attend. NMFs have funds for study abroad and are encouraged to go; study abroad is required for McDermotts. Those were the only examples he listed, but I had the feeling there were more.
My overall impression of UTD is that it’s a superior program that I would have no reservations recommending to others to check out. It’s just not a good fit for my particular S.
:)) :)) @DiotimaDM
Ohio University has a honors tutorial college. I don’t know any more than that. Might be worth checking into.
Texas Tech - what a surprise! We had no idea what to expect from this school, and we threw it in because it’s a STEM school with a full ride. Since we were going to be in Texas anyway, why not. S loved it! Loved it as in, it’s giving UNM a serious challenge for first place.
Driving into Lubbock from Dallas was kind of funny. The GPS was counting down the miles to our destination, and we figured we had at least a mile or so once we got off the freeway. Twenty miles out, all farmland and no city on the horizon. 10 miles out - same. 5 miles out - are we on the right road? Shouldn’t there be a skyline, or residential areas or something? A few more cross streets, but still very rural.
3 miles out - I think we’re lost…
OMG, is this our exit? There’s… there’s barely anything here??
Down on surface streets, OK, this looks more like civilization. We round a bend and A-ha, I see a few tall buildings in the near distance right as we turn into our hotel parking lot. Still, though, I’m looking around and this looks like a small town. Lubbock is supposed to have 250k people, so we’d like to know if the population includes cows, or if there’s a vast, underground bunker somewhere with approx. 200k people in it.
The campus is large and stately, and the reception room for visitors looks like it belongs in a super-swanky, historical bank or period hotel. The architecture is Spanish Renaissance, with buildings of pale gold brick, decorative friezes and red tile roofs. The gold brick reminds me ever so slightly of Oxford, and the architectural vibe is more stately and impressive than Southwest and homey.
We did the standard tour. The rec cen is pretty amazing. On par with UTD, and if UTD’s wins out, it’s only because it’s newer, not larger or better equipped. There’s an indoor pool, plus an outdoor multi-pool complex with a small waterslide and a lazy river. They also have the tallest climbing wall in the Big 12.
The dorms were sort of bog standard doubles with community bathrooms. No / very few singles available, and closet space that might not be adequate for some. A new honors dorm is currently being built that will feature pod-style accommodations, but we didn’t get to see it other than floor plans. Apartment-style units are available for upperclassmen, but we didn’t get to see those either.
S met with a psych prof, a bio prof, a pre-health advisor, two theater profs and the head of the Honors college. Most were department heads, and because he met with so many, the meetings were short, half an hour at most, and in full drinking-from-a-firehose mode. Student guides met us in between each meeting to conduct us to the next one.
S liked every department, and his tour of the bio lab left him wowed and speechless. As with UTD, there are tons of opportunities for students to get involved in research. In fact, I think there were even more opportunities at Texas Tech than there were at UTD.
S says his meeting with the Honors College dean was mind-blowing. S makes head exploding gestures The man was charismatic, approachable, wise, compassionate, insightful, funny, engaging and a delightful raconteur. My S can talk a lot, but he was dead silent for much of the meeting because this guy had him spellbound.
To recap, S likes ABQ better than Lubbock, and he says UNM has better dorms and a better meal plan. UNM offers 24/7 unlimited access to the dining hall, while TT’s dining halls have limited hours and a complicated “dining bucks” system that, while very flexible, is…complicated.
He liked the overall university, especially the research opportunities and Honors College better at TT than UNM. It’s gong to be a hard decision.
The financial package for NMFs at Texas Tech is full ride plus. You get tuition and fees, room & board, books, a transportation stipend and a personal / misc. stipend. It’s a more generous package than NMF at either UTD or UNM, but S won’t be making this decision based on the monetary difference.
@DiotimaDM, I’m loving your detailed visit reports! So glad your S is finding some good schools on your tour.
@DiotimaDM :x
I’m really surprised that more people don’t take a very serious look at Texas Tech, I think they have the most generous NM package out there.
So glad your son has choices he likes!!!
@DiotimaDM, I’ve also enjoyed reading your school visit reports! I was wondering if you were able to find out if UNM and Texas Tech stack outside scholarships?
I also noticed on the Texas Tech website that there’s a minimum 3.5 gpa requirement to keep the NM scholarship. Do you know the UTD & UNM gpa requirements to keep their NM scholarships?
I’m not a big fan of the 3.5 gpa requirement. It’s not that I think our kids can’t maintain it, but I also think it might keep them from stretching themselves in more difficult classes or trying classes outside of their comfort zones. A bad grade or two would then add to their stress levels as they’d now be scrambling to keep the scholarship.
It’s a shame that you had to deal with that UTD guy. Is he somebody of consequence in the admissions program for the McDermott & NM scholarships? I hope D18 & I don’t run into him if/when we visit. Maybe you should have reported him to somebody - I’d think he’s supposed to be trying to recruit the high stats kids & not drive them away by being so arrogant!
I think the current Texas Tech NM scholarship is fairly new(?). I can’t get my D interested in looking at Tech. I may have to insist.