Thanks for the recommendation advice, @RightCoaster . Our school does not use Naviance. and sadly, there is 1 guidance counselor for every 550 kids at our large public school. Ours being very young and very inexperienced has forced me to play the role of GC. Thank goodness for CC- I don’t know how I would get through it without. I will have D hand the teachers she has asked resumes toward the end of the year so she will be prepared to follow though in August or September. Great advice as always!
So interesting how one school’s nightmare AP is another’s easy A.
D was terrified to take APUSH but went ahead because all of the kids in her previous class were, and it’s been a breeze for her. Lovely teacher, not much homework.
AP Chem, on the other hand, has been the toughest class D has ever taken. She’s worked her butt off for the low B she currently has. She did speak at length with chem teacher about AP Physics. D is a STEM kid so she feels she must take Physics in some form and was deciding between honors and AP. Teacher convinced her to take AP- said it’s a much easier class with a super teacher.
My son, a high school junior, was just named a Furman Scholar. His award is $20,000 a year with a total of $80,000 over 4 years. This also puts him on the radar to compete for additional money once he applies and is accepted.
@SunnyFlorida22 having a resume to give to her LOR writers is a good idea. I forgot to add in my post that in the beginning of senior year the GCs gather all the kids and the work on filling out a personal profile sheet, so the teachers and letter writers have a better understanding of the kid.
If you don’t have Naviance no biggie, you can just collegedata dot com or look up the common data set for each school you are applying to. Those will help you see where your kid falls into their bucket of accepted students. It’s all broken down in percentiles and it’s easy to figure out if your kid has a realistic chance of admission.
I think I’m somewhere between minority and majority.
I don’t feel like kids need to take classes to “look good for colleges” (a phrase that literally makes me roll my eyes every time hear it on CC from some poor desperate kid trying to pick classes that will make a bunch of brick buildings happy). That way lies madness… for my kids anyway. I do feel like kids should take classes that interest them when possible.
However, I also counsel my kids to take classes that will help them grow, without stressing them to complete unhappiness. I don’t want them to take the easy, no risk path. Weigh the choices and consequences. For example, Spanish might not be her favorite class, but it’s not unreasonably stressful (at the non honors option for her) and will be helpful for her future education plans. That might be more of a benefit than taking a 3rd science class during senior year… and I mean she already has 2 planned for senior year and was considering a 3rd as well (she loves science and math classes). Very similar thought process for computer programming.
I was terrified of math in high school and only took the minimum. I remember the physics/stats teacher (he taught both, half year each)trying to convince me to take one or both. No way would I take them since they weren’t required. I have no idea how I would have done in physics, but I had to take stats in college at both undergrad and grad levels and they were pretty easy A’s for me. Loved stats, it made so much sense to me. I wish I had tried it in high school, that I had taken that risk.
I should also add that I don’t make the course decisions for my kids. I help them figure out the pros and cons to their options and then I let them make those decisions. They don’t always make the same choices I would make, but they make good decisions that they have ownership of.
My d19 was amazed last year when she realized some of her friends’ parents tell their kids which classes they can take.
@mom2twogirls That works as long as your kids make acceptable decisions. I had to put my foot down this year and insist that S sign up for precalc next year. He was insisting that he hates math and was never going to need to take calculus in his life so why should he take precalc. Out school offers a couple alternatives so the lower level math kids can still take four years of math without precalc. I just worry that too many college majors require calculus and I didn’t want him to start closing things off because he didn’t take precalc in high school. D16 wasn’t planning on taking calculus but then she switched into an economics major, so guess what she is taking for the first time as a second semester sophomore in college - calculus. She is now glad she took precalc in high school. I did let him not take any science or spanish.
My kids lead the course decisions as well, @mom2twogirls . Mr. InfiniteWaves and I serve as counsel and encouragement.
S19 wanted to pursue honors/AP English and history. S21 was presented with the opportunity for honors history this year and took it. And he qualifies for honors English for next year. And he decided to go for it. Both have decided to stay in regular college prep math and science. We support their decisions. And we are tailoring college planning accordingly.
Mr. InfiniteWaves was an AP-everything guy back in the day. I did exactly what our kids are doing. He and I attended the same Jesuit college. We have both been very successful in our differing career paths. So, perhaps I just don’t sweat the “rigor box” and prestige thing as much because of my own path and success in a non-STEM humanities field.
Actually, I think it works because they know the repercussions. If they choose to limit their courses and close doors for colleges, then they could go to a community college if they want to continue their educations past high school. We know plenty of people who did that.
I let my kid stop at 2 years of foreign language after warning her that the most selective colleges expect 3-4. She also knows her own strengths and weaknesses and opted for non-AP classes for world history, US history, and chemistry. If she could go back to sophomore year she’d probably take honors chemistry instead of regular, but next year she’s avoiding the AP Gov/Econ classes.
I’d think long and hard about advising your child that they should focus mostly on high school courses and activities that look good for colleges and put off exploring their interests until college. High school is free (for most of us, and for all of us free is an option). Do you really want your kid exploring their interests for the first time in college and possibly switching majors multiple times with the high cost of college? Or, the common scenario that comes up here on cc, the child who carefully constructed their high school experience to be what they considered most competitive for college and then didn’t get into a top 20 (or top 50 or whatever) school and feels like they wasted high school. Or they do get in to a dream school but they are so burned out by the highly structured pressure in high school that once they are away from home and on their own in the dorm room they drift into the gaming alone in their room or partying all the time scene.
I heard a great piece of parenting advice once from a dad who said, “I see my job as keeping 16 year old Sam from making decisions that 24 year old Sam will seriously regret.” We can’t always stop those decisions and sometimes we shouldn’t even try but at least we can make sure they think through the consequences of the choices they make now. Our kids don’t know what they don’t know and that’s were we come in. But it’s a mighty fine line we walk. My older two kids experiences in college have lead them to argue that the people who struggle most in college are those who either have totally detached parents and are really completely on their own, or those whose parents were super involved in getting them to succeed.in high school and college admissions. And of course, the perfect balance between those extremes is totally different for each kid, even without the same family. So what worked for you may be the wrong thing for someone else.
Each family is different and each child is different. I’m sure everyone on this thread is doing the right thing for their child. I don’t doubt that for a second. It’s good to hear other perspectives, of course, but please don’t discount that there truly are kids out there who can take a heavy load, enjoy their ECs, have a decent social life, and succeed in college. They aren’t all going to drop out because of the stress or go five years because they cannot figure out a major. At all LACs, kids have until the end of sophomore year to declare a major and they still graduate on time. Very few kids know they want to be a doctor or an accountant or whatever when they are 17.
S19 probably knows a few kids who are truly stressed out but the majority of people he knows are engaged and very busy and like it that way. He likes to run. He likes to make art. He likes to volunteer with his friends in the community. We aren’t forcing him to do these things. If I were really molding him in an unhealthy way, I would have figured out a way for him to be more pointy since that seems to be the flavor of the day for college admissions. We didn’t do that. We just let him be him.
My D16 only took a language for 2.5 years (the other .5 she was at semester away). She hated languages in high school. Took Spanish in elementary school and Chinese in high school. Hated both. She kind of felt like if 2 years is not enough then I don’t want to go to that school, however she also had accommodations for dyslexia and her GC said in that case a school that required 3 years would waive the requirement. Then D went to a college that requires 2 years of a language. I’m not sure you can get out of it; you can test up but I think you still need to take a language. I was rather worried, but D decided to take Russian and oddly enough has really enjoyed that. I think she’d minor in Russian if she could fit it into her schedule but as she is already double-majoring, I don’t think that’ll happen.
Every single year of high school, kiddo has signed up for classes the January before, we’ve gotten the schedule at the end of July, and we’ve had to go into the GC’s office to completely rearrange the schedule because of messed up or missing classes. I don’t sweat what kiddo signs up for the year before any more, I know we will be changing it. I think he signed up for 3 APs, econ, health, and 3 acting classes. Doesn’t matter, I know that’s not what he’s taking. Especially since he’s taking econ and health at the community college this summer.
I firmly believe that a good letter is far more important than one from each subject or even one from the subject the student plans to pursue. It depends of course, it is true that a core class LOR is generally preferable to an elective but if that elective is college focus then maybe not.
My S17 had LOR’s from his USH teacher and is English 9 Honors/AP Lit/Theater Tech teacher.
He worked with the English teacher all 4 years and they had a deep relationship, both good and bad. He was also the Drama Director so they had 4 years of productions together.
Grades were honors 9: B/A
Ap Lit B+/A-
Tech A/A
He only had the USH teacher for one year. Grades were A/A-
He applied to all his schools as an Environmental Science Major and used the USH teacher as his primary recc, English as secondary (and for theater tech scholly apps). He did not use his APES teacher or Math teachers. They’d have been “fine” letters and on paper more relevant to his major but not anything that set him apart.
Why? Because the USH teacher “got” my kid. And the letter he wrote spoke to S17’s passion for the environment, his community service activities, his political activism, how he engaged in policy conversations. Much of which had nothing to do with USH per se but showed my son as a thinker and a student who was engaged with the world around him in a way that made sense for his major. And it showed he really knew my kid outside of the classroom as a whole person. I struggled with him not using APES or his Pre-Calc/Calc teacher but he made the call and it was the right one.
Now. I don’t expect to have the luxury of being given a copy of S19’s letter, that was a gift and a much appreciated one. And while he has the same USH teacher, they don’t have that connection. He will use his AP Lang and homeroom Teacher, as well as his AP CS one. I expect that the AP language teacher will write a very interesting one that speaks to some of his struggles and progress but also his personality as she sees it in his writing. AP CS will show a very different side and one that speaks to the passion for the major. Combined I hope they are strong enough but right now, not sure which will be primary.
@homerdog I totally agree some kids can handle very difficult courseloads. I think my d19’s courseload is tougher than most at her school. Its tougher than I would have chosen for her or myself. But she chose that courseload. She chose every class on her schedule, whether because it was an elective or by the difficulty of the required course (ie whether choosing AP, honors or regular level) and she carefully considered the pros and cons of each decision.
If a student wants a difficult courseload, I can’t understand interfering with that unless a parent has a legitimate reason to believe it is damaging the child’s well being. But she has had friends with parents who have threatened to force their child to drop from AP social studies because the student had an 89, even though the student wanted to stay in AP. Or a friend with a parent who refused to allow jewelry making as an elective, and we are talking about a student in all AP/Honors/DE classes who was forgoing study hall for said jewelry making. Or a student not allowed to drop band/orchesta.
I’m just going to point out—alluded to by others elsewhere in this discussion, but it needs to be said bluntly—that it isn’t a choice between a difficult course load and slacking off. Viewing it as a binary excludes a lot of very big middles.
Yeah, my kid has been nuts with the advanced/AP classes. We just can’t talk him out of them. Wish I could because I feel like his courseload intrudes on family time. We spent one week two summers ago visiting family we hadn’t seen in 11 years, and he was doing prep for honors English the whole time. He wrote so much for that class and got virtually zero feedback from the teacher. Oh man, I don’t want to get started on it, I’ll go all day. Anyway, the only AP we were ever able to talk him out of was AP Human Geo, and he is kicking himself for not taking it because as it turns out, it would have been an easy A and now he’s behind his classmates in weighted grading. Oh well, what are you going to do? I do worry he’s not going to have time to “find himself” until he gets to college, and I’m trying to encourage him to consider some less expensive options for undergrad so he has the option of grad school. Would love for the kid to take a gap year, which may be where we’re headed if he doesn’t get moving on his college tours. Lol.
@liska21 - We just had D22 undergo a neuropsych evaluation. I have always suspected she is dyslexic. She has some delays, and may be dyslexic, but apparently is working at level at the moment for reading and writing, so it didn’t show up as problem on the evaluation. But I do worry very much about the language thing. She has been doing very well in her middle school German classes, but it stresses her out so much. She’s always had a horrible time with spelling lists - I would imagine the vocab lists are a similar kind of hell for her. I have tried to speak Spanish to the kids a little bit since they were little. They always resisted, but with my son, it eventually kicked in, and now we enjoy a little banter here and there. Hopefully if D22 switches to Spanish in high school, the home exposure will be enough to help get her through. Crossing fingers.
I so appreciate the discussion in this group about the balance we are all trying to help our kids find. Every comment has been helpful and thought provoking. I feel like everyone is right because the college search is such a complex situation with so many unknown factors and unique kids. Thanks for all your perspectives!
My kid does not take the “most” rigorous workload, which would be 4-5 AP’s or so each year, junior and senior. Sophomores can take 1 or 2 maybe. There is only a small group of kids at the school who actually do the full AP course of study. You need to be really good in all subjects and get straight A’s to be recommended for the AP class. You can’t just sign up and take them, especially the math and science AP classes. I think a lot of smart kids in our school end up with 4-6 AP, and the really really strong academic kids might end up with 10, Out of those 10 will be 3-5 of the “easier” AP classes though.
My son realizes he just don’t have a deep passion for literature or social studies, and just doesn’t feel like he wants to spend hours and hours on projects and papers for classes he is not enthusiastic about. So he takes Honors level English and Social Studies, but then takes the advanced math, science and computer classes because he wants to learn more about those areas.
If he took the full AP course load, I just don’t see how he’d have any time to do clubs or athletics during the week and he likes those things. He’d never have enough time to study.
Even in taking a medium level of AP classes he is still swamped with work. He just had a 3 hour practice and now he’s home and will be working on a project for the rest of the day that is due by the end of this vacation week.
So he realizes that not talking every AP class may limit his chances at getting into the most elite schools, but that was never really his goal in the first place.
He’s really happy to take a wood shop class next year as an elective to learn how to use all of the tools.