Parents of the HS Class of 2019 (Part 1)

@eandsmom I’m happy to share my experience with others! I should add, with regard to all those UCSD undergrads who asked me for letters, they would generally remember to thank me in person right after they asked me, but it was the old-fashioned written thank you notes that were so rare.

At my 20th college reunion a couple of years ago, a favorite professor of mine told me that today’s students, while amazing on paper, have more difficulty with the actual campus experience than did their parents’ generation. Of course she was probably humoring her audience, and I’ll acknowledge that her criteria may need to change with changing times (we can all acknowledge from recent history that today’s students are relatively savvy in using social media to effect social-media-funneled advocacy, for example). But this is what she said: today’s students are used to being micromanaged, in everything from parents intervening for grade changes to being hyper-scheduled in activities. They also have never had the experience of being disconnected, from their social lives, from their parents’ input, and from pop culture. They are absolutely addicted to screens. As a result, many soft skills – in-depth research on a single topic, budgeting their time to allow their thoughts to develop on a project, interpersonal courtesy, and listening, are all suffering. As a college professor, I saw this too, and the effects it had on the institution. Consider what you are paying for when you sent your child off to college. At my university, even by 2010 or so, the expectation was that a course would have its own website. And that website would include 100% of the course content. Every assignment was to be listed there, and every slide provided, and every study guide. There were suggestions that the course should also have a podcast, in which the lectures were recorded and made available. It should come as no surprise then that a large lecture course of 300+ students would regularly have only a third of students in actual attendance. Therefore, a sizable majority of students, at least in these large courses, were paying top dollar for what they effectively turned into an non-interactive online class. Every week, the university would require me to have office hours, which I was happy to keep. And for probably 90% of those minutes, I was just hanging out by myself. Point being…when your kids do get to college next year and beyond, check in on them. Communicate your expectation that they attend their classes. Many of them are not going to class, working toward the test only, literally only renting their online textbooks for the few days preceding the final, and missing opportunities as a result. I used to wonder what parents knew of what their students were doing…

My sister-in-law is on the faculty of a top-10 LAC and tells me that her students today are also having major mental health problems, more so than a decade ago. She said it used to be unheard of for a student to require a leave for mental health problems, and now she gets one or more every single semester. I saw an uptick as well in students being granted institutional special accommodations for their tests and deadlines. I am not suggesting these were not valid and important needs – just that they became more common over time, for whatever reason. These trends should be concerning to all of us as parents of college-bound students, many of whom are very high stats and thus highly motivated to succeed.

You say that it used to be unheard of for students to need mental health leave, but when I was at school in the '80s I recall a number of people taking time off or dropping out altogether due to mental health concerns. Heck, my sophomore year roommate checked herself into a mental health facility at the end of fall semester.

…although that may just have been the stress of being my roommate.

It may be that I heard of all the other cases because I was so closely concerned with E, I don’t know. I do remember that it was hushed up outside of our corridor. That may be why it seems more prevalent nowadays, we don’t treat mental health issues like leprosy any more.

@liska21 Thanks for the info. Our D21 is dyslexic and an abysmal speller. She takes Latin but can not actually retain vocabulary. It’s like it never goes into her long term memory. Luckily, she is the best in the grade at mythology and Roman history so she can still be successful, but I don’t know how long that’ll work (she’s a freshman). Maybe she should try Russian :wink: .

S24 is severely dyslexic, and gets accommodations. @Trixy34, I was worried about having my dyslexic kids diagnosed, but it turns out they were relieved to be “labeled”. They needed to know there was a reason it was so much harder for them, and that others have learned to compensate and overcome it.

@SDCounty3Mom, I do worry about my kids having time to let their thoughts wander, to be bored, to get lost, to wrestle with their emotions, to be truly alone. We work on that stuff by primarily by giving them freedom to travel/work/adventure on their own, and also by restricting technology. We don’t always succeed, but we’re always on the lookout for chances to give them downtime, and also those open ended experiences where you don’t know what’s going to happen and have to deal with it as it comes.

@3SailAway my D19 is dyslexic and has audio accommodations from both the ACT and College Board. Having audio accommodations made a huge difference in her performance on those tests. Plus audio accommodations come with automatic extra time (which you need because it takes a long time to listen to the audio). Also D19 took 2 years of Latin and basically refused to take any more. I actually think it’s easier to get audio and other dyslexic accommodations in college because they have more resources devoted to it, at least compared to our public high school.

I was in college in the 90’s. I didn’t know of many mental health leaves. I did know of plenty of kids with alcohol and drug issues and some of them ended up later being diagnosed with mental health issues. I think it’s one of those things where it’s hard to know whether the difference is that it happens more or that people are more open and understanding now that it does happen.

Speaking as a faculty member with just shy of 20 years experience on the job: I think the issue is not actually that today’s traditional-college-aged population is somehow different than it used to be, but rather than more of the K–12 student population is brought to a point where they can reasonably consider college than used to be the case.

This means that students who wouldn’t have succeeded in the past because they’d basically been filtered off the college track (or out of the educational system entirely) are now managing to make it through. However, it also means that more marginal (not necessarily academically, but socially and such) students are making it to college, and so are more likely to experience struggles once there.

This has created problems. The old way wasn’t really all that great either, though.

Each of us, I think, has to come to our own conclusions on what approach we think is optimal.

Son19’s official score card of places he’s visited. No particular order. Not sure which, if any, of the schools below will be on the final list to apply to.

  1. MIT- liked it, thought the people were cool and the whole vibe there was his style. Negatives - He won’t get in.
  2. WPI- nice campus, good programs, normal people with fun stuff to study, good clubs. Doesn’t like Worcester
  3. RPI- really liked the campus and they had exactly what he wants to study, but Troy is cruddy
  4. BU- did not like campus, did not like some people, liked being in city. Maybe too loud and city for him though, No quad, no grass. Liked engineering there, nice athletic facilities.
  5. UVM- nice area, nice town, near mountains. Not sure if engineering will be good or cruddy. So so athletic facilities for D1 program.
  6. Umass- big. Thought it was kind of boring. Some nice buildings mixed with ugly, hated tower dorms. Good dining hall, good athletics, and decent engineering. Good Honors program, with honors dorms.
  7. Brown- really nice campus, liked Thayer street, new engineering building, could take design courses at RISD, fun being in Providence. thought the people there were his style. Negative- zero chance of admission unless he gets recruited for sport
  8. Harvard- liked it, but wasn’t overly impressed with the whole scene. Probably reality did not match up with fantasy.
    Liked being next to Harvard square, liked the grass and places to chill, new engineering building looks cool, athletic complex is nice, dorms were good, he liked the history of the school. negative- total lottery unless recruited
  9. Tufts- liked the campus, liked the athletic facilities, engineering seems OK but maybe not as robust as some other places, could study different things there though, close to city with new T stop coming, wasn’t crazy hectic like being right in the city, liked the kids there, liked the school colors, ha.
  10. Northeastern- he’s been there to see his brother, said he likes it. He won’t apply there because his brother goes there though.
  11. Dartmouth- didn’t like it, cruddy dorm experience, thought the town was OK, engineering program not good compared to others. Was there for a camp, and he just didn’t enjoy it.

I don’t know if we’ll visit any other places this summer or not. Depends on how spring goes with school work and sports and then he’ll have to decide what he is looking to do. Totally up in the air at this point in time. I don’t know if he has a clear cut favorite. Maybe he’ll add some new schools to his list for us to visit.

Has anyone gone to a college fair recently? We are going to an IB one tomorrow and I’m trying to come up with more “advanced” questions. We are targeting schools that he’s already done some research on… anyone have any suggestions?

@Kona2012 my kid would probably ask how fast the wifi is and how late he can get food :slight_smile: Sorry I can’t be of any help.

But maybe you could ask about study abroad options or how do the kids get involved with research at that school if your kid wants to do that. Ask if they have a career center that helps kids with summer internships or help landing a co-op. Do the kids get assigned an academic advisor they will use for all 4 years. My son at Northeastern has found the advisor to be a great help this year. You can ask if they offer a special day for interested students to visit i.e. engineering day, life sciences day, math open house etc. If they don’t offer that, how can you get a firsthand look at those areas.

I wouldn’t get too stressed about it. It’s just a fair. They are there to answer questions and entice people to apply. Be friendly, normal and nice and you can’t go wrong. I don’'t think they are there to weed people out, lol.

@Kona2012 Once my kids had developed a bullet list of things that were important to them, they could then target questions on that to get more info. For example, for D16 some of the bullets were

  • strong study abroad programs
  • is double-majoring doable
  • theater but not theater major necessarily

So questions for study abroad were

  • what fraction of students study abroad and when do they tend to do it
  • are there programs and classes run by the school or do most students do outside programs
  • are there any study abroad programs at your school for STEM majors (at some schools there are co-ops abroad or a specific program for STEM. My D did one for the math majors at her school)
  • how does financial aid work for study abroad

After asking these sort of questions, it became clear which schools had a more developed and active study abroad programs and ethos.

Things I would ask as a parent and take notes on (but which my kids would not think to ask)

Get details on the GEs for any schools that kid is seriously considering. How many credits, how long does it tend to take students to fulfil them (is it a chore or not)? BTW, D wanted school with more not less GEs so that’s just a matter of preference but will make a big difference.

If your kid will be flying home: what are the breaks, what is transport to the airport like (how long does it really take). If you have 5 small breaks versus 2 big ones, that’s a big difference.

What is the academic calendar and what do kids tend to do on the break? Esp if you have 6-weeks winter break, I get details on what kids do. Some schools have set-up intern or research programs or other stuff.

Is your kid likely to want to do research? Then find out how kids get into that and what fraction do it. Big differences here among schools. For example, at D’s school (and many others), there is a summer program that you can apply for to do research with professors. Find out what that is and how many students do it. That’s just an example.

So, basically, identify a few key things, and get the details from each school.

Well, S19 surprised me after his “I’m not visiting any more schools” declaration and decided to check out Elizabethtown. We went to the open house today. Spent an hour with two English professors. Met with the music and theater folks too. We were both impressed. He really likes the school. I think it would be a good fit for him as well. So Etown is officially on the list.

Now, I think he might actually be finished with visits. :))

The list is at nine schools. Although the commuter option might be getting the boot because “I want to get out of the house.” This from the kid who back in the fall figured he would live at home and attend the local college. :slight_smile:

What they want Fall junior year/fall senior year may NOT be what they want by spring senior year. I’ve seen this with my S18. It’s definitely a roller coaster!

I’m curious – do your kids have, had, or plan to get a job? I’ve noticed that virtually all Common Data Sets include “Work Experience” as a “considered” factor. I’ve also had a professor friend of mine tell me she heard that selective AdComs now like to see a kid with an actual job, just as sort of a throw-back to earlier times and because it shows they’ve had to deal with adult responsibilities. Other than that anecdote, I’m wondering if “considered” means that they account for deficiencies in GPA or ECs for kids with a lot of work hours, or if they’re really seeking that out as an advantage for that applicant. I asked a college counselor if my daughter should prioritize a job this summer over other pursuits, and her response was that colleges are looking for students who have a cohesive story and have pursued their interests in a meaningful, long-term way. So for my daughter I guess, volunteering for a few hours this summer isn’t going to do much for her apps, but something she does all summer, or more in depth in some way, is indeed probably better than just going out to Target to get a job just for the sake of checking off that box. I’m curious what percent of kids applying to selective or highly selective schools has paid work experience these days. My daughter didn’t turn 16 until her junior year was starting, so she had limited options last summer. The school year would be insane for her to add in a job. She’s a 300+ hour volunteer, which really is like work experience, but “volunteer work” is its own category on Common Data Sets. The college counselor said “most kids will have that”, referring to work experience…wondering if that’s indeed true.

I don’t know the answer to the college aspect @SDCounty3Mom , but lots of kids at my d19’s HS do work some. There are kids that only work summers (mostly summer camps, ice cream parlors, etc) and some who work year long. My d did work last summer as a swim instructor/life guard. She planned that for years, getting her certification when she was 15, so she would be all ready when she turned 16. She didn’t work more than a handful of hours during the school year because her courseload is so tough and it didn’t seem necessary. This summer, she was lucky enough to get selected for paid a research program.

There are many kids who don’t work at all because they are so busy all year with classes, camps, demanding year round sports, etc.

When she was applying for NHS, she had to list volunteer hours and work hours and EC hours. They seemed to expect that kids with less work hours would have more volunteer and/or EC hours, and vice versa. My understanding from reading and researching (so not first hand) is that ad coms generally are looking for kids who are somehow engaging and participating actively in their communities. They also generally seem to understand explanations that due to family or other circumstances, some kids may not have the realistic ability for much active participation. Some kids can’t do much outside of school if they are responsible for younger siblings while parents are working, some may live in isolated, rural communities without many opportunities, etc.

@SDCounty3Mom

In general, in my opinion, nothing should be done that is “just” for the sake of checking off a box. Adcoms can smell that.

A job does show that a student is able to take orders, show up on time and keep a commitment while juggling other things (if during the school year). If the volunteering is something she is passionate about and consistent with her overall story it may be equally valuable. Adcoms do not look at work and community service the same. It is a perfectly reasonable choice to say it’s too much to add on to the school year but it is also true that many kids do work, and have hundreds of community service hours as well. However adcoms also realize that in some cases the community service is not necessarily self driven but is a requirement for NHS for example. It’s certainly possible for it to be both but again, it’s all about the story the sum of the parts add up to tell.

In some cases the volunteering can lead to a paid position of some sort and that’s a double prize scenario.

S19 does plan to get a job, hopefully right after AP tests are done, and it appears he may have an internship for next year as well but neither are final or arranged yet. The job however is not necessarily for college apps at all. It is because 1) he’d like spending $ of his own. 2) he needs to learn how to work for others and 3) socially it’s a great growth opportunity that helps in navigating the college experience and 4) is helpful if applying for on campus employment. If it impacted his grades though, we’d put a halt to it. The internship, if he gets it, should be helpful on his apps.

Thanks for the Elizabethtown report, @InfiniteWaves ! That’s one that was on my radar last year at about this time but we never made room to visit. It sounds like a possibility for consideration later this summer.

I insisted that DS19 did something this summer. For a while he was looking at jobs and not at all happy about it. Then this play fell out of the sky and blocked off all his weekends, plus he’s taking two community college classes. I decided that was ambitious enough especially since he plans to get busy writing college essays in August. He’s already journaling and writing short personal statements so he is developing some good raw material.

@SDCounty3Mom My '19 kid is the youngest of three. She is also a late summer baby so rather young for her grade. She was considering getting a job this summer but was accepted to the Governor’s School for the Arts summer residential program so will be doing that instead.

My older two kids did work. My oldest daughter worked the summer before senior year for the city in a “leadership program”. Really she just worked at a rec center watching little kids. I don’t think her jobs helped her too much in college applications but they certainly didn’t hurt her.

My son is an Eagle Scout. He volunteered at summer camp the summer he was 15 and racked up tons of volunteer hours. The next year he was paid to be there. The following two years he worked in a local grocery store. I do believe schools liked seeing Eagle Scout, lots of volunteer hours and paid work on his applications. The college he attends put him in a special program that gives him extra aid to cover his federal student loans so long as he continues to work part time and participate in things on campus including some volunteering.

I think having a summer job is important for the reasons listed by @eandsmom. Several of my son’s friends have had jobs but some have not and I was surprised by that. My S19 has worked as a lifeguard starting the summer after freshman year (you can be a lifeguard at 15 where we live) and will do it again this summer. He works a couple hours a week during the school year as a tennis coach but that’s all the time he can do, and even then he is very limited during sports seasons. He’ll surely be busy this summer working, doing swim team, water polo training, and hopefully writing essays and narrowing the so-called list. I hope colleges will look favorably on his work experience because he definitely won’t be doing any of those academic programs that cost thousands of dollars.

My kids—the three old enough to, that is—have all done babysitting (and filed taxes on their fairly low levels of income from it). My D17 applied to a handful of schools that do individually tailored acceptance letters, and it was actually mentioned as a positive in one of them.