That conference type table is exactly what my introverts don’t want to be forced into. They aren’t shy, they can and do speak up when needed. They have no problem approaching teachers or anyone one on one and discussing coursework. I don’t foresee that being a problem. Large universities do have opportunities for smaller colloquialis and projects. But it’s not all that stuff all the time the way it is at a smaller school.
Again, I’m not knocking smaller schools. I adored mine. My first class my freshman year had about 10 kids around a table and a professor who suggested we call her by her first name. It was heaven to me. My kids (especially my younger d22 but also this d19) would find that fake and forced.
It’s good to have both big and small schools on your kids list. They can change their minds overnight. My older son was convinced that he wanted smaller, but then visited a few bigger schools and found they had their benefits too.
I was sure he thrive at a small school, but in the big school he is at he has met a lot of people and is doing things out of his comfort zone. That will help him in the long run I think
Son19 doesn’t have any big schools on his list other than our state U and maybe UVM, and UVM is really not very big.
When I was younger I was happy to learn the school I was going to had a 60/40 female to male ratio, it had plan trees, sunshine, football games, parties etc. It was a great overall experience. Maybe not the greatest “learning” experience but when I was young I didn’t care about that very much. I don’t know if I’d do it any different today. Good times.
@InfiniteWaves - I think it’s great to have a big school on the list. Your son will change some opinions over the next year and it’s good to have a variety of options. He’ll figure out what he wants and make it work for him. However, if you do go to visit before accepted student visits, I would definitely suggest waiting until the fall and taking him to a home football game. That will really give him a good idea about the size and the school spirit. I’m definitely glad my D17 ended up at a LAC because it is a very good fit for her in a number of ways, but she almost went to UGA honors and she would have had a good but different experience there.
When I was 17, I left Maryland and went 13 hours away to UF with no car, cell phone, e-mail etc. I was super shy and that first semester was rough. I couldn’t believe what I saw looking out my window (close to the stadium) at the sea of people on the first Saturday game day but the school spirit ended up being such a fun part of my college experience. I had a biology and one other class that each had 1000 students! However, I made the university smaller by joining a sorority (many other options besides doing that) and I loved the liveliness of the campus. While the academics were completely different than what my daughter is getting (and in my opinion, not nearly as good), I worked hard, got good research experience and got into a PhD program at a now top 20 university. So don’t worry! It will work out!
As someone who attended a big (in terms of both surface area and population) school as an undergrad, it’s worth remembering that very soon after arrival any student is likely to narrow their circle in terms of both people and places. In addition, once declaring majors happens, which at larger schools tends to be done pretty early on, both of those tend to narrow still further.
Ok ok. So now we’ve got small (2000 kids), medium (6000), and big (20,000). And S19’s list is spread all the way from California to Virginia. @RightCoaster I hope that’s enough options. LOL.
Now he would need to get into these schools…I guess that’s one way that kids end up limited in the end!
I have two children currently in college, one at a large state school and one at a small LAC. There are definitely pluses and minuses at both several of which have been mentioned upthread.
Don’t assume a small school is better socially. If your kid is the kind of person who excelled socially in high school they will be fine at a small school. But if your kid struggled a bit to make good friends in high school, I’d argue that a large school may be a better choice. Some quirky kids need a larger pool of people to choose from. Yes, my D16’s small school was very intentional about helping kids make connections but they felt forced and unnatural and once the school scaffolding ran out on that she was left by the wayside. It took her much more effort to find her people because there were fewer niche subgroups to choose from.
S19 got his ACT score from the Apr 14th sitting today. He didn’t need to take it since he’d done well enough on the SAT, but since he was signed up, he wanted to do it. He found the ACT much harder than the SAT, interestingly. And indeed his ACT score did not match his SAT. It was his science sub-scores that were low. Huh. He was hoping to submit both, but will now submit only the SAT. Unfortunately, the low science score probably doesn’t bode well for his upcoming SAT subject exams.
I appreciate everyone’s thoughts regarding big school environments. All I’ve been seeing in my mind are 300+ student lecture classes and getting completely lost because you can’t keep up with what’s going on. And that would cause anxiety for me. S19 is a much different student than I was. He could probably handle that and actually enjoy the lack of “spotlight” on each and every student that happens when sitting around a small table with the prof.
He is also a super quirky kid. So @mom23travelers , I really appreciate what you pointed out about the quirky ones needing a larger pool of people to find their tribe. Perhaps this is why S19 liked PSU. One of his tribe from home is already there and thriving. And his not-nearly-as-quirky cousin told him that everyone can find their place at PSU.
@elena13 Going up there for a football game is a great idea. Not sure mere mortal PA residents who are not yet connected to the school can do such a thing. But I can see. S19 is a super quirky kid. But he is in the marching band and gets the school spirit thing.
You all rock! I’m feeling much less freaked out now. Maybe we should add one more ginormous school to the list.
@liska21 the ACT science section isn’t really about science. It’s about reading charts and graphs. And kids have to know that you do NOT read the articles or you’ll never finish. It’s more of a game than a test on how well a student knows science. I’m sure your son will be fine for his other standardized science tests that test content.
@liska21 I don’t know that a low ACT science score predicts a low SAT2 science score, they are very different animals. SAT2 tests your detail knowledge of a science, while the ACT tests your reading speed, some general knowledge, and your ability to read graphs and interpret data.
@elena13, break-a-leg to your daughter in Legally Blonde! I have a soft spot for that musical as it was the first one my daughters were in together. I’ve been reading the Vassar student newspaper and love all the varied opportunities for performance, playwriting, choreography. Last winter, the Shakespearean organization and the tap dancing organization collaborated to produce Romeo and Juliet on tap. Looked so fun and out-of-the-box.
As for school size, I think the important thing is that the student goes into it ready to advocate for themselves and go after their education. There have to be programs and classes at every school, no matter what size, where a student will not remain a number unless they choose to.
For me, as a 17 year old introvert with low confidence, I wasted too much time at the beginning of college drifting through my classes without forming relationships with the professors. I never got to do research, although I would have loved that. My D will be older than I was, with more experience getting noticed and getting help if she needs it. Still, I wonder whether it would be better with all the extra stresses of college life, for her to be in small classes with dedicated advising right from the start.
Another issue for me was that my parents were far away and their philosophy was hands off once you reach college. Not blaming them, but I really could have used help deciding what classes to take, major, even EC’s. I needed a sounding board, and I wasn’t ready to think Big Picture about post college etc. on my own.
@liska21 the “science” section on the ACT is misnamed. It tests the ability to analyze data provided in charts, tables, etc not knowledge of actual science. The SAT2s actually test knowledge of the science (Bio, Physics, Chemistry, etc). Performance on one is not necessarily indicative of performance on the other.
That science section on the ACT is why S19 went with the SAT. In order for him to score higher on the science section he was going to have to employ strategy that has NOTHING to do with content. It bummed him out. He was going to have to read the question and first and go back and look at the charts and ignore the articles. It annoyed him to no end thinking that that’s what colleges want him to do in order to show what he knows about science. He’s the kid who always wants an essay test so he can show what he knows instead of being limited to tricky multiple choice. The ACT is not a good match for him!
@homerdog@ninakatarina I hope so. Oddly, he’d done really well on the ACT science sections on all his practice tests. He doesn’t have much time to study for the SAT IIs before June. APs are up next and then of course there is keeping up the GPA in 2nd semester junior year. I hate this endless standardized test prepping and testing on top of all the junior year homework and it won’t let up until early June. I shouldn’t complain. a) he’s the one taking the tests not me and b) he’s one-and-done with the SAT so really lucky there.
@liska21 my 2 kids has such a difficult time with the science section too. However, my older son was frustrated and decided he would just practice a bunch of practice science section tests. He finally cracked the code on his 3rd attempt, and ended up with a 35 I think. He had previously been getting /29, which is not bad. The first 2 tests he did great on 1/2 the categories, then the next flip flopped. Finally in the 3rd attempt he was more even overall and his science helped pull up his other scores a bit.
Son19 took the ACT once, and did so so on it. He didn’t prep a lot for it, and the science section confused him and he didn’t as well as I thought he would on math. He ran out of time and just found the whole thing not to his liking.
I’d like him to try it again, because you never know what kind of day you might have.
We are trying to decide what tests son19 should take and when, he needs to take sat subject tests and he could take the sat again in the early Fall maybe.
It’s going to be really interesting to see how S reacts. Mind you, it is a good score but off the 34-35, he was aiming for and it was the science that pulled it down. It’ll be interesting to see if he can ‘let it go’ and stick with just his SAT score. I’m just bystander in this. In fact, I won’t dare say much of anything to Once-Sweet-Boy who has morphed into Not-so-Sweet-at-the-Moment-Mr-Competitive.
This Sunday, DS had a big essay to write and he was super stressed. I thought he should have made more progress during the week so he didn’t have to spend all of Sunday on it. But of course, I kept these thoughts to myself. It was like walking on egg-shells in the house. Finally DH and I started communicating with notes (“How 'bout we get out of here?”) and quietly escaped for the afternoon. I put a lasagna in the microwave and we ran away!
@3SailAway those are great points on the differences. Both my d’s will be 18 midway through senior year in high school, so quite a bit older than I was, with my fall birthday and turning 18 after college started.
I also was terrible at going to teachers for help or clarification on anything. I always figured either I knew it or I didn’t and that was that. My kids have had a lot of practice in going to teachers (and even online) for help, clarification, finding out if a different way of doing something would also work, etc.
Finally, my parents were pretty hands off. They didn’t see my college until move in day. They saw it again for graduation. They didn’t go to college themselves so didn’t have that kind of advice and while my mom enjoyed reading some of of college papers, there was no one to bounce ideas for classes or minors or anything off of.
Junior year!! It’s such a beast. My D has had so many stressful weeks. She likes to share her anxieties with me, and I don’t know what I can possibly do other than be a sympathetic ear. Yesterday she was reciting all the work she has on her plate, and I made the MISTAKE of pointing out that she’d been randomly writing a rebuttal to an argument that had nothing to do with anything earlier in the afternoon instead of working on this huge list of work for her classes. She almost choked up in frustration and said, “Well, I shouldn’t have to spend every minute of the day on schoolwork.” Which is true. Some days, it’s ridiculous.
So yes…the key is to get through this era of their lives, with all that that entails, with their sweet souls intact!! I’ve long had a fantasy of D falling in love with a match school, applying early, and being done before Christmas. Won’t happen, though…we can’t do ED financially, even though I like to pretend we can.
Anyone have insight into what information schools use to send out all their marketing info? D has gotten mailers and letters that make it sound like they can see some sort of data about her. A recent letter from USC said something about “information we’ve gotten from the College Board makes us think you’d be the type of student who can contribute…” Is this just something as dumb as her self-reported GPA on the SAT registration questionnaire? Even in early fall, she got a super cute letter from Macalester that referenced the College Board, and that would’ve been before she registered for the SAT. Her PSAT scores are nothing to get excited about for these selective schools so I’m curious what they’re seeing. They can’t actually see any real scores, right? No AP test score or PSAT score unless you consent/request info to be sent…? I know we’re supposed to ignore all the mailings that arrive every single day but I do glance at them (she doesn’t) and if it’s from an esteemed school like a Mac or a USC, I open them up out of curiosity. I’ve been flabbergasted by the volume of content she’s received from the University of Chicago, where she would probably not be admitted. Everything from a poster of the campus to a large envelope brochure to numerous post cards to an invitation to an open house here in town, not to mention numerous emails, and it’s gone on for months. They already have the #1 selectivity ranking from USNWR…makes me think it’s because of all this active marketing. And I just don’t understand how my D got on their mailing list. Their marketing budget must be huge if they can afford to spend a few dollars on this one kiddo in California.
