MODERATOR’S NOTE
Perhaps @MaineLonghorn was too subtle, so let me try. Compliance with Terms of Service is not optional. Any additional posts that I delete on this thread will be accompanied with a warning. Let’s support each other instead of throwing shade at one another. The snark ends now.
@4kids4colleges I live in a hyper competitive Boston suburb and the lack of knowledge about how the process has changed in a generation is staggering. For many families, both parents are working long hours juggling quite a bit. I also have relatives in rural parts of Pennsylvania and your experience mirrors theirs to a T. I was fortunate to get some free guidance from a few folks here on CC. The time to dig in and understand all of this on your own is a privilege and not one available to many families.
The other thing I would add: the change between the time my S17 applied and my S19 has blown me away! My boys had similar stats but schools that were matches for my S17 were no longer matches for S19. Crazy.
@Trixy34 Thank you for sharing your journey and insight. I agree that the use of ED has really changed in the last few years. We are a donut hole family - too much income to get much aid but unable to afford four years at $75K for two kids. I simply had to take ED off the table. Thank you again for sharing.
Congrats on the great school options being shared. There are awesome choices, even if it might be an emotional time for your kids as they make these decisions. They’ll appreciate your patience.
@momzilla2D I hope she falls in love with one of choices. I’d love to hear about the Clemson visit. It was on the 11th grade college list, but D apparently had too many orange schools. 
I have a younger sciency scout who loves sports and whose mom is looking to keep her within 2 hours, so I found a home for those brochures.
@momof2atl Both of our D’s were intent on giving up Hope, apparently. I’m glad she found the right school for her.
@4kids4colleges My perspective is that ED is not a good option if a family needs/wants the “merit” aid option.
For those with students in “Honors” programs. Did any regret accepting? I know they come in all forms. In one school I thought it was a good option for already required Core reqs. In other schools, they seem “extra”. I’m now wondering if the programs began blending together during the App season.
I think the question of whether ED at Brown or any school provides unhooked kids with an application advantage depends on data that we as the general public don’t see. Brown’s ED acceptance rate according to the 2017-18 CDS was 21.6%, with an implied RD acceptance rate of 7.1%. That’s a big difference! BUT, it all depends how many of those ED acceptances (689 out of 3,183) were for athletes or recruited through Questbridge, etc.
Let me interrupt myself by saying that I believe that students offered admission through their athletic skills or through Questbridge are no less qualified (and maybe/probably more so!) than the rest of the students offered admission. But the key question – where should I, as an unhooked student (legacies being a special case) – maximize my ED chances, comes down to how many of those 689/3183 were in those 2 categories. If it totaled 200, so that the unhooked ED rate (489/2983) was 16.4%, then, yeah, it seems like ED conferred an advantage. But if it totaled 450, so that the unhooked ED rate (239/2733) was 8.7%, then if there was an advantage, it wasn’t much of one, and I’m going to guess that other institutional priorities (e.g., legacy admissions) probably wiped out the rest.
I have no idea what the answer to my question of how the ED population breaks out into subcategories is, which is the point.
My personal opinion is that ED confers the greatest advantage over RD when the student has a profile that makes a college think that the student might choose a different or “better” school, so that students have a better shot at the schools where they are at the 75th percentile or above. Obviously there will be countervailing examples (waves hello at @SJ2727 's kid), but I guess I tend to think that the students who get in with that sort of profile compared to the overall admitted student population would have had the same success, on average, in RD so that ED wasn’t necessarily conferring an advantage. Of course, there’s literally no way for me to prove (or disprove) my theory.
We didn’t use ED because this was our first go-round and so were nervous about how accurate NPCs would be; more importantly, our D19 really didn’t have a particular favorite. In retrospect, given how close NPCs were to actual financial aid offers for the colleges which D19 was admitted to (we are waiting on one more decision), if she had decided that one of her schools was a definitive favorite, we might have been willing to have her go through with it given 20/20 hindsight. I don’t think it would have changed the result on the school she was denied at, but it would have, I think, given her some unknown (and perhaps minimal) bump at the other 2 LACs she was waitlisted at.
I’m not sure what to think about this whole process - so many ups and downs for so many kids and families and it’s upsetting to see hardworking kids disappointed. I can definitely see why some would wonder if it’s worth taking a shot at certain schools. I know my kids wouldn’t have had the results they did without me guiding the whole process (and doing tons of research) but even then it is very unpredictable. For my D17 she applied and was accepted to UGA honors and the rest were fairly selective LACS (Kenyon, Denison, Davidson, Wellesley, Richmond, Vassar etc.) - mostly not the tippy top and no top 20 universities. If she was going to anything other than UGA (excellent option but probably not the best fit), she needed good aid and I also didn’t think some of the most competitive schools would be the best fit for her. She ended up getting into all but one and while it is a bit of a stretch, the FA worked out (she would have gone to Davidson if they had given her more $ but no).Two years later the odds are even worse at all these schools.
For S19, there were various reasons we decided to try for even more selective schools (that seemed to be good fits academically) once he was in at his safeties (very good choices fortunately). I feel like I was pretty realistic the whole time and knew we were possibly wasting a lot of time and money but my son was up for the challenge and generally responds pretty well to failing at things. Last summer when he tried the ACT once more and got a 36, others who don’t have our CC knowledge said “Oh he’ll have his choice of colleges” and it’s possible my son bought into that a little. But I knew better. With no hooks and coming from a large public high school that sends very few kids to selective private schools (and no reasonable GC help), I knew that most of the schools were big long shots and/or getting the money needed would be difficult. I did pick a few with better but still low odds (Emory, Colgate, Richmond) but when several wait lists started rolling in for the 10% or lower schools, I think it was finally sinking in with my son what I had been saying all these months. I definitely didn’t think any more acceptances would be coming his way. There were many times over the last few weeks when I thought “Should we have just been happy and thankful for UGA and GT and saved our money and all this grief?”. We were lucky to have those options, and reading about so many awesome kids getting shut out of their top picks was discouraging. I really don’t know why Brown and Vanderbilt came through. Seriously Brown’s RD rate was 4.8%. While I have some ideas about things that may have helped my son get picked, maybe he just got lucky. I’m sure I could read through the threads and find many rejected kids who are equally or more qualified. Yes, I guess it was worth it but I’m still a bit traumatized. And it easily could have gone a different way.
@elena13 Congratulations to your son having the confidence to take a risk, beating the odds by distinguishing himself and getting into Brown and Vandy while unhooked. Amazing achievement!
Getting into one elite school may have an element of luck but having gotten Into 2 schools suggest he really displayed something special… lightning doesn’t strike twice.
Which school is he leaning towards?
@elena13 I think both of your thoughts about why Brown and Vandy came through are correct. He clearly had met all of the qualifications…and he got lucky. I don’t mean that last part negatively at all. (Down people down!) What I mean is that part of what he offered and clearly did a great job highlighting is something they found interesting and intriguing and therefore very worthy of an offer!
Congrats to your son for his hard work, accomplishments, and excellent options!!! You should be very proud.
@Trixy34 I just wanted to let you know in case my most recent post to you accidentally sounded interrogative, that it wasn’t my intention. In person, it probably would have been a different tone. I meant that you have no need to second guess your support of the choices your son made in this. You guys did it right. You had some tough odds and some tough financial circumstances. I’m sorry it didn’t work out more smoothly and easily. But your son is going to incredibly well wherever he ends up.
@peachActuary73 My DS16 attend the Honors College at CofC . He receives additional advising, priority scheduling and priority housing . He has a number of Honors classes that he needs to take that also meet Gen Ed requirements. They are taught in more of a seminar format. He has had the opportunity to be a part of a Living Learning Community. He has developed strong relationships.with his professors and advisors which has helped him be offered research and internship opportunities. He tends to be somewhat of an introvert , so it provided him with a sense of community. We have been extremely pleased. Each program is different. Some are programs, some are actual colleges with graduation requirements.
Awwe - thanks @mom2twogirls - I’m sorry if I came off defensive. Just feeling a little raw these days I guess. It’s been a very stressful year - trying to help steer this kid, with all the parameters that had been set down for him, and he’s so dang stubborn on top of that. Letting him make his own decisions, even if you know it’s a misstep, and then not being able to save him from the consequences - it’s hard. And I feel the same way about his girlfriend, who really got screwed over this admissions season. I am not enjoying being in a position of “I told you so.” (Well, maybe a little, but I haven’t exactly said that, lol!) Anyway, hands are completely off the wheel now, but he has a lot of work ahead of him and it’s going to be yet another stressful month. He has some really great options from which to make his decision, but he really doesn’t know these schools and we will have to make time for visits. I’m excited to see where he’ll go next, but I’m also just looking forward to this being over.
This is what people sometimes miss. There are tangible benefits to attending your safety, especially if it is strong in your major or field of interest. My D1 is having an incredible experience at a safety school. She has great relationships with professors who love her and put her forward for amazing opportunities on and off campus. She has had some great internships and has a truly prestigious one lined up for the summer. She couldn’t be happier and neither could I.
Kids who end up at their safeties may be disappointed, but there are benefits they may not yet realize.
I’m encouraging D19 to at least start out in Honors and see how it goes, since it us an option she is being offered.
Thanks @carolinamom2boys
@scholarme Thanks. That is definitely the plan if she’s at one school. When she was looking at her first-year (the sample degree is fairly structured at all the schools), she had some concerns. I just made her reach out to a contact the school gave her. I’m glad she’s digging in. It seems early, but she’s looking into how many classes she’s not “into”, she’d have to take at each school. I don’t think it’s the other perks of Honors at issue.
You’re welcome @peachActuary73
A thought on honors programs from a faculty member who occasionally teaches honors students: It is not even remotely a mark of shame for a student not to complete an honors program. I mean, even aside from life happening, completing additional/special requirements just isn’t in the cards for some students (particularly in certain majors, or if they change majors later in the process), and we’re all actually pretty cool with that.
My son has officially made a decision. He only applied to 3 schools, and got accepted to all 3 with some merit.
Alabama- full ride with National Merit
Clemson- $25,000 per year (way more than we expected)
Virginia Tech- $5,000 per year (less than we expected)
It came down to Clemson and Alabama, and ultimately, he feels more confident in his academic plan at Alabama. He was accepted to the Honors college and the Stem to MBA program. He is planning to double major in Physics and Math, and the get his MBA. Alabama’s Stem to MBA program will allow him to do that and his scholarship with cover all 5 years.
I’m excited for him and ready finalize his orientation dates, roommates, etc.
This board has been a huge help.
@brentwoodmom - Great news! Congratulations on his wonderful decision!
@brentwoodmom congrats! Alabama looks like such a fantastic campus and has some wonderful programs and opportunities!
Congrats @brentwoodmom