@brentwoodmom Wow! What a great opportunity for your DS! A bachelors and masters degree in 5 years and all paid for. You really can’t beat a deal like that. Well done! Huge congrats to your DS and family.
@brentwoodmom I havent been posting much but had to chime in - CONGRATULATIONS. Wow that is so wonderful!
@brentwoodmom - Congrats! How exciting!
Awesome news @brentwoodmom! Congrats!
@Nocreativity1 Thanks! We are still looking at the numbers and I think Ga Tech, Emory and Colgate are still being considered. Unfortunately the Brown Promise is not living up to the hype. It was the worst financial offer. However, I guess we’ll talk to the FA office and see if they will consider doing a review. If I had to guess, I’d say Vandy is the front runner, but my son resists college visits and tends to surprise me with his opinions.
Congratulations @brentwoodmom! Alabama has so many great opportunities!
I have very mixed feelings about ED.
In theory, I am adamantly against it. And yet, 2 of our 4 went ED though not to T20 schools (or even T50). Both, I would say were unhooked. They had a clear front runner and wanted to be done. Their schools were in the 30% acceptance range either for the college, or the major. They both also argued for it giving them a better chance which we felt was likely accurate. In both cases, it was their idea, not ours. So we heard them out and they made solid arguments, very different ones in each case.
We did have a budget. We knew what the first school would be and while it was more than we “wanted” to pay, knew we could live with it and felt it was worth the cost differential. For the 2nd, S19, we did not know what it would be. We had a NPC that was on the very very low side of palatable. And yet, we let him apply. We were very (VERY) clear that if the money didn’t work he’d be attending elsewhere. That we would try to make it work but there were no promises. We also felt, for him and for his major, it was worth a premium price it was more a matter of how much. As basically a full pay family (looks a tad less while we have 2 in school) our focus was merit.
His merit offer came in lower than we would have liked and well above our EFC. We appealed and they gave a tad more. After much debate (with 2 other EA offers in that were considerably less and under our EFC) we let him enroll. They then offered a new scholarship opportunity which he applied for, and was awarded.
His net result is higher than the barely palatable NPC. While I am still not a fan, in general, it was the right thing. I do think he’d have been admitted RD, but not to his first choice major and for us, that was worth it. But honestly, I am not sure. Higher stats kids have been denied RD.
I will also say to anyone considering appealing awards…you have nothing to lose. We appealed with S17 and he was awarded more at several schools and as noted above so was S19 even as an ED applicant.
It’s a hard thing, this time of year. The roller coaster that it all is (combined with teenage hormones). We didn’t shoot high, we focused on budget and fit and as a result, low reach/high match was typically as far as we went with 3 out of 4 kids but I do have to say…out of the 15 applications between the 4 kids, we only had one rejection. And that one, was a reach. They may not be schools that get a ton of play on CC and that’s ok.
Would I do ED again? Would I encourage it? I don’t know. I can see both sides. What I do know is this, is the one kid who applied to 7 because we wanted to compare offers, and was accepted at all, had by far the most tortuous decision period and at the end of the day…I am supremely glad this is our last one.
I’m a huge fan of ED, even if you are unhooked. You have to do your research though. If it’s a small LAC, you find out what percentage of the student body are varsity athletes. At Hamilton I think around 25% of the students are athletes. I would not apply ED there unless you have something else they want (if you are not a recruited athlete).When it comes to needing FA, I wouldn’t let that stop if the school is need blind or meets100% of need. Of course, you have to be comfortable with what the NPC says. Remember, you can get out of your contract if you can’t afford it. Also, your stats should be within range if you are unhooked.
We encouraged our D to apply ED since she had schools she loved. She narrowed it down to Richmond for ED 1 and was deferred. After that she started to realize that she could be very happy at some of her EA acceptances in case she didn’t get in anywhere else( after a deferral you can feel like you will never get in somewhere “good”).
We also asked her to consider doing ED2 somewhere, and it looked like she wasn’t going to, because her second favorite school was no longer a favorite (Bucknell). A week before ED2 apps were due she decided to apply to Wake Forest. We discouraged her, because of all the essays she would have to write in such a short time and because it was too late to do an interview.We thought she had little chance of getting in. She insisted and wrote her best essays.
She sent the application the night before it was due. We were all shocked that she got in. She did not send SAT scores, no interview, no subject tests, never sent them AP scores. I write this to let others know that it’s impossible to know what colleges want. She was unhooked, but clearly had something they want or needed. It also helped that she applied ED2. I was amazed that kids with 1500 SAT scores were waitlisted in RD.
There’s an expression: You have to be in it to win it. Every kid who wants to apply to a reach or far reach should, because you never know. If finances are an issue then that trumps all, but if you can pay what the NPC says, apply.
Lots of luck is involved. For those who have kids applying, I would encourage them to participate in class and let their teachers get to know them. I think LACs especailly want kids who are active participants in class. Also, make a point of getting to know the GC. I think these relationships helped my daughter. Also, don’t underestimate the importance of the essay questions. Grades and rigor come first, but this other stuff helps. Finally, if you don’t have super high test scores find some test optional schools that appeal to you and don’t send those scores.
Great news, @brentwoodmom!!
@brentwoodmom, UA is still where I kind of wish my D17 had gone—it came down to there or Muhlenberg, and at roughly equivalent cost, she decided she’s a LAC sort of girl. She’s probably right, actually, but Alabama had just so much to offer, you know?
A little late to the discussion. Saw @Trixy34 comment that “Unless you have some kind of hook or are valedictorian of a competitive high school, forget the ivies. Just don’t waste your time.”
For our family, dreaming is encouraged and perhaps I could very well have been guilty of “stringing along” my D19. Four years ago her sister surprised us all by getting into Amherst along with rejections from all the Ivies and a smattering of waitlists. My D19 caught the bug and wanted to be at the top. No one at our small town HS has ever in memory gotten into an Ivy through academics alone (and only one recruited). Yet she dreamed - of Ivy - of Yale in particular - which deferred with ED. We tried to kept expectations real. Yes, 17 applications were expensive and dominated our family time for months. Only one of the 17 was a match school but would have been very expensive for us. She was fortunate to get a good offer from Wesleyan which we (parents) celebrated and breathed a great sigh of relief. But it wasn’t “Ivy”. Our culture has made getting into Ivy so overblown - yet even in small town USA it is the brass ring. Our daughter couldn’t yet celebrate. Waitlists at Amherst, Williams, Pomona, Bowdoin, Davidson, Rice, and lastly UPenn didn’t help.
Yet the miracle happened and Dartmouth accepted her (and it was the last Ivy we checked). Days later, she keeps on repeating, “It was worth it!” I do not agree with the acceptance validating all her hard work. Yet I was willing to let her risk “failure” (in her mind). She gave 100% for 4 years and my encouragement has been: reach for the stars. Better to try and fail (sorry for the cliche). We want her to be open to Wesleyan and look for best fit. But it is mainly falling on deaf ears. She’s willing to wait and visit both to decide - but I know how it will end.
I apologize if this comes off as preachy / condescending / insensitive / etc. We all have learned a lot of life lessons in this process. I think there is an incredible amount of maturity and wisdom being shared in this thread. And my experience and conclusions don’t invalidate @Trixy34 or anyone else’s. Thank you all for the thoughtful and heartfelt responses and for sharing your children’s successes and setbacks with grace.
@citymama9 @rmsdad Great posts! Congrats and best of luck to your D’s.
@citymama9 @rmsdad Congratulations to your kids!!
Great to hear stories about kids working hard, getting informed and being proactive, taking risks, and having it all pay off. Particularly when they are unhooked and aware of the steep hill they are climbing.
Also congratulations to you as parents for not shielding your kids from possible rejection and taking your own emotions out of their decision to go for it.
While I like the “got to be in it to win it” my two favorites are;
“Nothing ventured nothing gained” and the following often attributed to Tom Jefferson “I find the harder I work the luckier I become.” Hats off to your kids for working so incredibly hard that they became “lucky”.
@rmsdad just curious but did your d19 play a sport? Not necessarily recruited, but was it one of her few ECs through high school? I ask because there are a handful of colleges that take kids here and there from our school, but always athletes. Dartmouth really seems to like our lacrosse players for example. Not necessarily superstar athletes being recruited, but ones who played consistently.
I think the biggest piece of advice I can give is know your kid. Be frank with them regarding acceptance rates. Show them the numbers. Have discussions often. Discuss the “what ifs” Be realistic with yourself. Too often parents see college acceptances as a reflection of their parenting IMO. If after all of this, your child is realistic and understands their chances at a particular school, I say let them apply if it’s a realistic financial possibility. This is just my opinion and how we approached the application process. It doesn’t mean that it’s the right strategy for everyone.
I have gone through the process now with three kids. My kids set goals for themselves to meet during the high school years, but the goals were personal goals and didn’t involve getting into a particular school. They did activities in high school because they wanted to, not because they thought the activity would impress a college admissions officer. They knew that no matter where they ended up attending college, the hard work they did in high school was worth it because the end goal was never about the college they landed at.
During junior year, my child and I would discuss the type of college that would be the best fit. While we didn’t hire college advising consultants, I was very involved in the college search process with my kids: my kids had definite ideas about the type of college they wanted. I did most of the research to help them craft their lists based on their criteria. We then visited those schools. Some that fit on paper were eliminated after visits.
My oldest had two top choices, both EA schools, one with an acceptance rate in the 40’s and one with an acceptance rate in the single digits. He was accepted into the first and deferred by the second December of senior year. Had he not been accepted at either of the two, he had more apps “in the wings” waiting to be submitted, but it wasn’t necessary. After being deferred, he ended up being accepted on pi day by the other EA school and will graduate from this school this spring.
My middle was a recruited athlete. His was a more involved process than my older kid because we needed to find both an academic fit and an athletic fit. By early winter of junior year, my son had narrowed his list down to 4 schools - 2 in the Ivy League and 2 in the NESCAC. After revisiting these 4 schools and spending a day with each of the teams, he chose to accept the coach support at one of the NESCAC schools. Some of his friends and their parents expressed surprise that he turned down schools that were well-known and in D1 for a D3 school that none of them had heard of, but it was definitely the right decision for my son. He sent in his ED application in September and was officially admitted in December of senior year. (He saw no point in having any apps “in the wings”, so I stressed until he was officially admitted, but no one else in the family did. Had he not been admitted, it would have been a terrible winter break for him devoted to applications)
My D19 was my last rodeo. She also had two top choices with acceptance rates similar to my oldest. (In fact, one of them was the same school) However, one of the top choices did not offer EA. In addition to applying to these two schools, I had my D19 apply to a couple more schools with acceptance rates in double-digits that were similar in fit to her two top choices and offered EA that she would be happy to attend if she were denied at both of her top two or the finances didn’t work out if she were admitted.
I also suggested that she apply to a few liberal arts schools just in case she changed her mind about the type of school she wanted. She ended up applying to 8 schools - more schools than her two older siblings combined. She ended up being offered admission to 7 out of the 8. We are now waiting for FA numbers to come in, but provided the finances work, she will be attending the school that was her favorite from the beginning.
I am happy to be done with the college search process. For my kids, finding a school that offered EA that was a good fit with reasonable acceptance rates that we knew would be affordable helped to reduce the stress levels during senior year.
It is wonderful to see stories of kids who worked hard, beat the odds and were accepted to their “dream” schools. Those kids and families have every right to be proud and to celebrate their achievements.
Personally, I find the stories of the kids who worked just as hard and didn’t get into their dream schools, yet rose above disappointment to be more inspiring. There are many of them on CC and I wish I had the time and knowledge to find and link them.
There is the story of the super high stats kid who was rejected everywhere and found a way to make it work and excel at college.
There are so many other stories of these bright, resilient kids heading off to places they didn’t intend and thriving there. I am really proud of those kids and their families.
And, in the end, all of us who have the means and opportunity to send our kids to a college that suits their needs are very blessed and lucky in the grand scheme of things.
I know we are blessed and our journey has been less rocky than many other kids and families here. I strongly disagree with hanging back and letting the kid determine their fate. I love him to death, and S does great at school, but he's the type that forgets to put up his dishes, scrambles every morning to get to school on time ('cause he forgets that things are happening that day), etc. Until this year, I had to ask regularly if he had remembered to put on deodorant. :neutral: What I mean is, he's still just a kid. I know more about this process than he does, so as a parent I consider it my job to help. In this case, it's actually a paying job since we planned to try and help with the costs.
We are low income, so every potential school was scrubbed through the NPC. Everyone here knows that low income can be a curse - except when comes to cost of college. If you can get in, there are many schools that meet full need. Because of what I had read on CC, we did not count on merit at all. My heart goes out to those who can't afford the NPC, but who are by no means rolling in cash. For the past 3 years, we have deliberately weighed our income and opportunities against the impact it would have on college costs. We take no government assistance (except for Obamacare pricing), but by my math - unless we could earn about 40k more per year - 75 cents of every extra dollar we make would immediately go to healthcare and college. Our standard of living would barely increase. Sad truth is that unless some earth-shatteringly amazing opportunity comes along, DW and I will almost have to remain low income until D22 is out of college. We are totally in a holding pattern.
S applied rolling to the state school early and got in around September. That took the pressure off. It did not have a good program (at all) for his major, so he had chosen another for that school only. After that, it was "I'd be OK with Ole MIss, but if I can afford anywhere better I'm going." We had a family meeting and decided what we could afford, then I made a detailed spreadsheet of schools where the NPC was below the target and where his scores would be safe, fit, or reach. Let me say here that I truly believe that some college debt is OK. It's not shameful and can be managed, with an eye on ROI. We set the 4-year college cost limit at one year of average starting salary in his field, with plans for us and him to try to knock it out together.
Since the state school was in hand, we let him pick his ED shot (Brown - super reach). He had an ED2 lined up (Tufts - fit-to-reach), and 7 more planned applications - 3 safe, 2 fit, 2 reach. His ACT was around the 75% mark for the reaches. We did not know at the time he would win Val, but we knew he was top 5 out of 200 in a rural MS school. I know now from CC that this basically means nothing, except that your app won't go straight to the "NO" pile. At least the stats might earn a look. I also used to think he was totally unhooked, but what do I know? A kid from MS leaning ROTC might be the least represented demographic in the Ivies, even if he is white. :smile: He got in, and we have been in disbelief since. In this small town (20,000 residents - next bigger town is 90 miles away), he's like a celebrity because he got into an Ivy. It's like he's going to another planet. At an awards night this week for 30+ ACT students across all grades in the HS, the kids stated their dream or accepted school - 2 service academies, 2 OOS, 16 Ole Miss or Miss State. Most of the latter have probably never looked outside state lines, and I think that's a disservice to the kids. They may not need to apply to Ivies, but I truly believe that they have no idea about the many wonderful schools in-between. Makes me want to volunteer to help those with stats that could possibly do well at higher ranked OOS Uni's know what their options are. But as I said, what do I know? I honestly thank y'all for much of what I do know.
@mom2twogirls interesting supposition. My D was intensely involved in three related gymnastics sports. Nowhere near recruitable- gymnastics recruitment is absolutely insane and she started at 13- but she was a three sport, six event state champ in two states at trained over 30 hours a week between the sports (she did all three at once for awhile). She even became the first person in CA to compete an entirely new program- she was literally their poster girl. We’d assumed that her sports were just ho-hum, she’s a gymnast for ECs, but now I wonder if it made her stand out more than we thought.
@professionaldad - Wonderful outcome for your S! Good luck to him. 
@rmsdad @professionaldad It was really inspiring to read your kids’ stories/outcomes.