@socaldad2002 Thank you so much for sharing what you learned from the professional counselor. I would love to be able to hire an advisor but don’t have the finances to do so. This is extremely helpful.
@socaldad2002 that was really informative. Thanks for sharing. I find it interesting that the counselor recommends dropping down a class to maintain a grade. We struggled with this when we were planning S20’s junior schedule. He has been recommended for 4 APs but I thought it would be too much. He also wanted to take orchestra as an elective - not his strong subject. In the end, we decided on 2 APs, 2 honors and no orchestra. We decided to play it safe for GPAs sake.
@socaldad2002 Thank you for generously sharing the information you learned from the professional counselor. One concern I have for my son is he wants to skip taking a language next year and substitute an extra math class, so he would only have 3 years of language when he graduates.
Our last day is tomorrow. In case anyone heard a loud SQUEAK that was my son’s 3 B+ grades sliding into A minuses this past week. 
He spends 30-40 hours a week in his spring EC January- Mid April, and it took until this past week to finally get all of his make-up work completed.
So, the reason for my question about safeties is that we allowed DD’16 to apply to wherever he thought he’d like to go. Some state public and private schools and oos privates. Used Naviance and his stats seemed to fit well within ranges. He was accepted at all and received academic merit to all but one. Here’s the thing - after the elation of the scholarships waned and we sat down with all the awards letters to make the final decision based primarily on final cost, truly we had to eliminate most. He says to me, “Why’d I apply to all of these, if I can’t go to them?” Now that’s been rattling around in my brain since then. What could we have done differently? Especially given the considerable effort of applying. I don’t want to have a similar reaction with DS’20. I think it comes down to expectation. So there were schools that were clearly safeties based on his stats but not based on the cost. I guess my controlling tendencies show and there’s no formulaic solution.
It’s not a safety if you can’t afford it. Make that call before your child applies.
safeties: D16’s bff from HS applied to local LAC and stanford. At the last minute she realized she needed a safety; applied to state flagship late in the game was admitted but received no merit. (and state flagship is generous with merit.) She was stressing out! she’s happy at stanford; but lesson learned for those around her to apply to somewhere they can afford early in the game.
today is last day of school for youngest 2 kids. college kids both had 4.0s this semester! But these two each think they’ll have one B – in band and in spanish. We’ve had ONE semester out of all the years in school where all 4 kids all had 4.0s. Can’t wait for summer!!!
question: i saw a chart recently showing the percentage of full-pay kids at ivy leagues and elite schools. Many of those schools have 50% of the kids as full pay. Why are there so many full-pay kids coming from the the top 2% of incomes? Are rich kids smarter? Have more opportunities? Families cant pay their EFC? I guess I had thought that elite schools were taking from the top kids nationwide regardless of income; yet there’s a huge percentage of kids coming from such a small percentage. thoughts??
@Redslp Congratulations on the grade improvement! Put in the hard work and it paid off.
@dentmom4 How do you know what you can afford unless they apply and you see the awards letters? Makes sense for non-merit aid schools but not really for others. Been on cc a while now and have heard of surprises either way - unexpected full rides and $0 for sure bet safeties. Hard to know if you’re “The One” with a hook that fills a gap for the school that year and garners large merit. I think we’ll stick to paying for him to apply to the schools that he’d be happy attending; filling out many outside scholarship apps; and setting realistic expectations based on what we’re willing to contribute annually and the Common Set Data on merit aid averages. Otherwise he’ll wonder what if… and can’t go back on that decision.
Well, for one thing, the allure of Ivies diminishes once you get into the “flyover” states. Yes, we have kids who go there, but more often than not, the higher achieving kids stick near home and go to state honors colleges, LACs, and non-Ivy top-tier research schools. Why? Because a lot of kids in my area will go to the state flagship where their parents most likely attended and where lots of their friends are going. These are the kids who are third or fourth generation at the universities. Some will go wherever after college, but some will go home and take over family businesses, go to graduate school, get married, have kids, and maintain family ties. They just don’t want to move away. Also, while the Ivies meet need for tuition and such, many kids can’t afford to travel far from home and incur those expenses. And then there’s my kid. My kid hates cold weather and snow, so no Ivy for her.
All in all, not every top kid nationwide is yearning to go to New England just for the prestige of saying they graduated from an Ivy League school. Meanwhile, I’m sure there are lots of kids whose parents - and possibly grandparents - went to an Ivy League. These kids are probably also in the “preppy” boarding schools. So, many of the reasons why flyover kids are choosing to stay close to home are the same reasons why the one percenters are attending Ivies.
Are rich kids smarter? That may depend on how you define “smart,” but it’s safe to say that the higher income you are, the more opportunities you have from birth.
@bgbg4us While there are a lot of full plays at ivies, not all of them are in the top 2% of income. I know because we are full pay at Yale and no where near that income bracket. People make sacrifices and some take loans that don’t show up in the stats. It is true though that while the schools may accept the “best” across the country, some upper middle class kids can’t afford it and choose to go elsewhere. The lower and even truly middle class get financial aid.
Also legacies which make up 30% of Harvard’s freshman class tend to be wealthy and full pay. I’m sure it is similar at most if not all of the other ivies.
@bgbg4us I agree with Musicmom2015…do not assume the full pays are handing over the cash for each year. This is especially true in regards to ED. Many middle class kids/families are taking on huge debt or sacrificing everything to get in in the ED round which does not offer much (if any) chance at merit. They are trading financial peace for the the green light to their dream school.
@tutumom2001 you make a lot of great points. I am from the Midwest and going to a state school or neighboring state school was what most of us did. Most of my friends from high school and college are still in or around the area. I however moved to the East Coast for grad school and stayed. My husband is also a flyover state transplant. I feel that the high school kids here go all over in terms of college choices. Luckily our country has so many great choices. Proximity is an issue for me but the ivies are close enough so that that’s not a significant deterrent. It’s the Midwest and out west schools that I’m having heartburn about due to additional transportation costs. DS’s reason for selecting any college including ivies is program of study, scientific research opportunities, and classical music performance opportunities. His planned major isn’t offered at any of our state’s schools and at only one of our state’s private colleges.
I think your best bet is to apply to schools that offer guaranteed merit for your student stats and schools you know you can afford.
I don’t think it’s worth the time, money and effort applying to schools that will very likely be un-affordable. You should make it very clear to your child what your budget is before they apply anywhere. Make sure they look at travel costs and the cost of living in the area the college is located too. Also talk with them about how much, if any, financial contribution you expect them to make.
Since d17 is at St Andrews it’s going to be hard for D20 to beat her in getting further away from California.
@VickiSoCal Do you mind me asking how you D17 chose St.Andrews? I know its a great university but I don’t think my D would have a clue that it even exists lol.
@SoccaMomma. How do you know what you can afford? You run the NPC for the school and receive an estimated EFC. You look at schools with automatic merit for your child’s stats. The best merit will come from the school itself. However, the Ivies don’t give merit, need based aid only, as every student would qualify for merit aid. Many outside scholarships are for freshman year only and are small. Very few schools allow stacking (and you must report all outside scholarships), so your in-house aid gets reduced, not your EFC. Colleges don’t have an infinite amount of aid available each year, so they spread it to many, rather than a few.
You look at your savings, 529 if you have one, and current income. That helps you determine what you can reasonably contribute each year for 4 years. There will most likely be a gap between your budget and the EFC. Are you expecting to take out loans, have him take the federal loans? If you have younger children, you have to consider their future college expenses. Be sure you have the money talk with your child before he applies anywhere. Too many kids on CC end up with acceptances to schools they would be happy to attend but none are affordable. The list has to be crafted carefully. Part of the safety school equation is affordability. The concept that if a school wants your kid, they will make it work is a fallacy.
While we read of the occasional unexpected full ride, it is very, very rare. And not everyone’s definition of full-ride is accurate. If one needed aid to attend the safety and got nothing, it really wasn’t a safety.
Anecdote: we are full pay everywhere. We told our kids we could fully fund 4 years at our state flagship. Anything over would need to be covered by merit. All three have gone (are going) to a private LAC with good merit. S1 wanted to apply to Stanford; he was somewhat competitive, but we couldn’t afford it. My parents offered to cover the difference if he got in, so he only applied because now it could be “affordable”. He didn’t get in, so moot point.
Just saw your next post. His major interest sounds limiting. Could he expand it more to have more undergrad options and pursue the special interest in grad school? Many kids change their major in college, so he should like his choice if he decides to pursue another direction.
@socaldad2002 she wanted to go overseas but as a chemistry major she decided studying in English would be best. She looked at the league tables for chemistry in the UK and applied to 5 of the top 10. In the UK you can only apply to 5 schools. She got offers from 4, we visited 3 in a whirlwind trip and she liked St. A best.
@VickiSoCal is St. Andrews three- or four-year? The tuitions at many American Universities are so high that for some students, going overseas often is cheaper financially. Smh!
Thank you @dentmom4 for your comments. We, too are full pay and saved in 529 since birth for all 3 so not too worried about younger sibs. Our plan is to have $0 debt for their undergraduate degrees. The ivies are very generous based on income though. For instance a classmate of my DS went pretty much free ride based on single parent income. This won’t apply to us but the tuition is greatly reduced. Even “middle income” families get reduced tuition. Additionally we appealed to increase merit to the school where my DS’16 applies and it worked so it is possible.
His interests are really not that limiting as he has about 15 schools on his list right now
St. Andrews is 4 years as is Edinburgh and Glasgow. English universities are 3 and she was very interested in Durham but the culture and feel of At. Andrews swayed her.