I wonder that, too @evergreen5. And, in addition, I wonder if greater weight will be placed on the academic reputations of applicants’ high schools if GPA is considered increasingly important and test scores less so.
In the past it seems that students weren’t penalized if coming from average public high schools, and if anything, might get a bump if they have a high GPA (and presumably high test scores) from an under-represented school. Now, just as it’s expected or at least advantageous for home-schoolers to present test scores at test-optional schools, I wonder if test scores will still be considered important for our kids not coming from high.y-ranked high schools (even if colleges don’t say so.) Another reason I want my D to keep prepping math.
@evergreen5 My D is not a good test taker, but is a good well rounded student. Test Optional will open the door to schools she never even considered prior.
@evergreen5 Scripps and Boston Univ just said they will be TO. Case Western announced a few days ago. I actually think it’s interesting that colleges aren’t waiting just a tiny bit longer to see if more ACTs and SATs are added this summer. Maybe they are hoping, if they change their policy sooner, kids will start considering their schools when maybe they were not before. And that could work. If a school on D’s list becomes TO when it’s not already, it’s going to shoot to the top of her list of schools to start researching.
Who knows how the TO policy will help or hurt kids. Some things seem obvious - you’ll need rigor and good grades. I’m sure essays will matter even more for smaller to midsized schools. I always thought recs were important and not just a “good” rec but a recommendation from someone who knows the student very well and also knows HOW to write a rec that stands out and doesn’t use obvious adjectives like “leader” or “curious”. The teachers need to have solid examples to beef up their recs.
I don’t know if anything would change regarding a high school’s reputation and how it would affect decisions. I really don’t think colleges will hold it against someone if they come from a school they don’t know as well but it will be up to the student to stand out.
^Intuitively, perhaps colleges are getting nervous that their fall app totals might be impacted, not so much by test date cancellations but more generally, and are about to pull out all the stops so that they don’t have to be the ones feeling embarrassed to report a decrease for college class of 2025.
I wonder that, too @evergreen5. And, in addition, I wonder if greater weight will be placed on the academic reputations of applicants’ high schools if GPA is considered increasingly important and test scores less so.
Yes, our west Texas school sends kids to Harvard, MIT, CMU, UPENN, Stanford, (more to Harvard than the others) and I have seen 1 to William and Lee. I suppose it is because we are in remote west Texas with high stat kids from Title 1 school. As opposed to the affluent large metro areas of the state of Texas.
Well, I left for work after waking her up and she went back to sleep. She said college board had put the videos on YouTube and gave the kids a link to handouts and even other videos if students are still confused…She has not looked at it yet. Wants to wait closer to AP exam time. Wringing every drop out of this break.
I am getting emails from the different teachers. All the work will be posted for the week every Sunday. so you can get your work done early. They must sign onto Google Classroom by 1pm each day. And teachers will use Zoom for tutoring, office hours, etc.
D thinks she is going to like this.
As far as boyfriend. D is such an introvert, she loves having the time alone, boyfriend is extrovert and is dying. Wants to talk, facetime, text constantly.
@homerdog It’s not that they haven’t been learning the whole year, but some teachers are better/worse than others. And, some topics come easier/harder to each kid. However, I will say that S18 didn’t do any of his World History reading in 10th grade (unbeknownst to us, he had taken up videogaming that year), and he used a study guide to learn everything during spring break (we took away his computer) and he got a 5. So, the study guides do help!
To me, it’s like any testing. Some kids may need more practice with a study guide, some do great without. S21 got a 5 last yr on calc BC and an 800 Math SAT II without study guides, but that’s his strength. S18 also got a 5 on calc BC without a guide but only a 650 on math SAT II the first time. He used a study guide the next year and got a 750 (still not great based on that curve, but way better).
I’m all for overpreparing! If it were me, I’d do 3 study guides!
As to the test optional schools that is obviously not going to apply to schools like Clemson that are NOT wholistic and only consider rigor, test scores, GPA and class rank. Not sure how many other schools are like this.
@burghdad so that will stink for Clemson. Kids who don’t have a test under their belt yet or can only get one test in before apps are due then might not apply to schools that can’t be flexible. Even the UC system was playing around with the idea of being TO so I think there will be some state schools that will be surprisingly TO next year.
Also @burghdad I don’t know how Clemson can consider class rank for all kids because not all schools rank so they obviously determine admission without that piece of info for some kids. Our school does not rank and last year I think about a dozen kids went to Clemson.
As an Auto Merit chaser
I feel bad for the kids that need to chase merit and don’t have the scores they need. Auto Merit is usually dependant on 1. Test score and 2. GPA. 3. rigor. I can’t see those schools that give big money , give the money without the scores they require.
@TVBingeWatcher2 That is a big question for sure. So far, I don’t think we’ve seen any auto merit colleges that are TO. Let’s just hope there are some test dates coming up. I think most RD apps aren’t due until 12/1 so, yes, it will be stressful for kids still testing in the fall but not impossible (as long as there are tests in the fall!).
I think it will be a combination. Test Optional is a growing trend in admissions, and I definitely think the number that offer applications with no test scores will be MUCH larger than last year.
But I don’t think it will be universal or even the majority of schools. I’m guessing it will be schools in the the academically rigorous, but yet not quite “elite” category that will join the current Test Optional schools.
They attract many applicants that don’t prioritize testing super early (like kids gunning for top 20 schools do), but definitely intended to test more than once and are being “robbed” of that opportunity. These not quite elite schools are also likely concerned with their SAT/ACT averages going down this year and test optional is a way to avoid that. They’ve probably been thinking about it anyway.
The elite schools don’t care - their averages are safe. The lower schools don’t care because their averages probably won’t be affected either (most applicants are just sending the one score).
The stats based admission schools like Clemson will be interesting, but I don’t think they have the infrastructure to function without test scores (just look through the threads where kids complain about merit awards being “too low” from kids whose schools do not rank); they accept the applications without rank, but they don’t spend too much additional time on the application if they don’t “know” the high school or if the high school can’t even give them a decile ranking (sometimes done privately by the counselor). If the overall applicant pool’s ACT/SAT scores are lower, they will just have to take the hit on the averages for the year. But I don’t think they will be able to function without a score.
State universities don’t always have the choice on whether to be test optional. State postsecondary governing boards or even legislatures may require a standardized test minimum for admissions – which means a student is required to submit a score. This is the case in NC.
But I agree that some of these boards or legislatures may waive a required test this year, esp. if the state sitting of a SAT/ACT has been cancelled. In NC we did have the sate sitting of ACT in late Feb but the makeup date didn’t happen. Wonder how many kids missed the first one.
It’s a real issue for low-income families who may only use the state sitting.
We start online learning on Monday. No word yet on how they will handle grades.
At my D’s college they can declare any class they want P/F until the end of the semester. So in other words, grades this semester can only help you. If you are getting a good grade, you can keep it. If not, you can declare it pass / fail. It’s possible you might even be able to switch it to pass/fail after seeing the final grade – at least that’s what she thinks but she’s still sussing it out.
@homerdog The biggest thing clemson uses class rank for is merit money. In order to get merit you have to be in top 10% and have certain test scores. They claim that even if your school doesn’t rank they have some way to figure out generally where a student would stand.
My D’s HS doesn’t give the students their CR or put rank on the official transcript. But they do in fact rank the kids. Their policy is if a student needs his/her ranking for scholarships or service academy applications the GC will give it to you. Because I was aware of Clemson’s policy I asked to have my D18’s class rank and when I learned she was in fact in the top 10% I asked the GC to include the rank in his letter to the schools. He said he would do so. Whether he actually did or not I don’t know but my daughter did get merit money.
@homerdog also they may have to reconsider that way of doing admissions if there is a significant amount of students who were not able to get testing done due to Covid-19 issues
Similar here…our HS doesn’t rank on the transcript either, but the GCs do know the approximate rank of each student…so I expect they do share that with schools who use it for merit, etc.
@AlmostThere2018 Illinois waived the requirement for high school kids to take the SAT at school this year. I do wonder if that means public schools in Illinois will have to be TO. For some kids in the state, that’s the only test they take.
@3kids2dogs You have a good point about Clemson admission not have the infrastructure to handle 29,000 applications for a wholistic review. Especially when the only way they have ever done it is based purely on stats.
And I guess I meant our high school doesn’t rank in that no one ever finds out their actual number and it’s not on a transcript. We do know top 10 because they sit in the front row at graduation and top 5% get a certain sash to wear as do top 10% and top 20%. I suppose any high school could report rank if the student requests that it’s done for certain apps…and certainly for merit.
Not ranking just means kids don’t see their rank every grading period. My H went to our high school and, when he was there, his rank was on each report card.