Appreciate the reply and I agree with your thoughts. If a student is driven toward a goal (in this case Med School eventually) then they should be successful at any school they choose. We have found this process confusing and more difficult than we expected it would be.
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My two cents is if money is not a concern, there is a lot to say for diverse, globally-important research universities with a lot of good departments, not least for pre-meds in the event they do end up tracking into a different path.
But if money is a concern, then it gets very personal. People are going to launch great lives out of the Path 2 universities you mentioned. So without denying there can be a difference, I cannot say definitively if the difference will be worth the cost.
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I would suggest that this poster start their own thread asking this rather than posting on the class of thread. They will get better responses. And more to their questions.
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Generally speaking any activities completed during high school are not listed on a med school application, though if she continues working as a CNA at the same location during college she can included her high school hours on her activities list.
ENT is one of the most competitive of all medical specialties to match into so she should not set her heart on becoming one. Only ~60% of those who apply to ENT from med school actually match into a residency. She should only consider pursuing pre-med if she would be OK as a primary care physician (pediatrician, general internal medicine, geriatrics, family medicine). /lecture
RE: pathway
A strong student can get into med school from any undergrad regardless of its rank.
A Tale of Two DaughtersāI have 2 daughters. One went to college at a state U (free tuition!) close to home ranked in the 190-210-range; her sister went to a private research U ranked in the mid 30s. (major merit money!) They both had very similar opportunitiesāthey were TAs, paid tutors for the university, Both made close connections with faculty members for their LORs needed to support a med school application. Both were involved with research in their interest areas, Both were able to find volunteer opportunities on and off campus ā¦both applied to med school and both had multiple acceptances. (Both eventually chose to attend our state public med school due its very low cost.)
Today both are practicing physicians in their first choice specialties after graduating from highly ranked academic residency programs.
Moral of the Tale: Itās the student not the undergrad that makes for a successful med school applicant.
Your daughter should choose a undergrad keeping 3 things in mindā
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cost. Med school is approaching $100K/year. With very little aid to pay for med school other than loans, loans and more loans (all UNsubsidized), and many low paying years during residency before they can start paying off their debt, pre-med are strongly advised to minimize any undergrad debt.
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fit. Happier students perform better academically. Thereās data to back this up. She should choose a college where she is comfortable socially and academically. (t helps if she in the top 25% stats-wise of admitted students since itās those top students she will be competing against to get the As needed to make a strong med school application.)
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opportunity. Research shows that fewer than 16% of freshmen premed actually complete med school pre-reqs. And only 35-40% of those do persist and actually apply to med school get any acceptances. So your daughter should choose a university that offers her best opportunities to discover and pursue other interestsāeven if they lead her away from medicine. Her choice should also allow her find actives on campus to become involved with, to develop her leadership skills, to meet and interact with people from a wide variety of backgrounds different from her own
(ethnic, cultural, socioeconomic, racial, religious, ec.)
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Great information. Thank you!
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two more bits of adviceā
Pre-med advising at most colleges/university ranges from terrible to pro forma. Your daughter can get quality advice about her ECs and her school list from several medicine-centered discussion sites, as well as from AMCAS, ACOMAS and student-centered pre-professional organizations like AMSA. HOSA and Alpha Epsilon Delta. If your student belongs to a UiM group, there are special organization to support them.
Donāt let a school bamboozle you with talk about how 90% of our med school applicants get an acceptance. You have no idea how they determined that and every college/university has its own method. Itās not even clear what those acceptances are for sometimes. Some colleges include acceptances to foreign med schools or other health professions in their total, not just USMD program. Itās totally opaque and not to be trusted.
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This is incredibly helpful. And yes itās so opaque. Even independent sites will quote from these stats and make it sound legitimate.
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Hope everyone is having a relaxing day.
A quick question to this group - do emails from public universitiesā financial aid office about FAFSA etc. only get sent to those kids who are most likely to be admitted?
No!! Itās an indication of nothing
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Nopeā¦reminders like this are sent to all applicants. Financial aid needs to be ready for anyone who gets acceptedā¦before that gets decided.
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Being an EMT and an enthusiastic teenager who wnats to go into medicine is not the same as knowing in 4 years that you want to be a doctor. Medicine is an evolving field and there are so many barriers to being an excellent doctor that I would never encourage a 17 year old to apply to a bsmd. I have been in private practice for over 20 years and I cant say that I would encourage the next generation to go into medicine. On another note this is the last time for many many years that he will be able to have a lot of fun. If he isnt enthusiastic for the school I would move on.
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D23 looked at 3+3 DPT programs during her college search. There are plenty to really like - Saint Louis University among them!
She ultimately decided to not do a 3+3 program, and instead picked a college that has an articulation agreement with a couple DPT programs that she can apply to early (if she so chooses) while still planning on spending a full 4 years in undergrad. She made that choice for the same reasons you expressed - this is the last chance for her to have fun and not wanting to grind out 3 years of undergrad with summer school and then immediately going into grad school.
She is loving her school, getting the chance to continue being on a dance team, joined a sorority and can still breath while also pursuing her academic goals to become a PT.
ETA: Not knocking 3+3s or BS/MD programs. They are great options for some students. Iām glad we checked both 3+3s and traditional 4 years undergrad + applying for DPT school options out for D23 and she then made the right choice for her.
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Believe me, I would be elated if he chose a different path. Itās done, he squashed it but appreciate insight all the same.
My wife has been a practicing pediatrician for over 20+ years. She did her undergraduate at Memphis. Realistically, Memphis isnāt even even in the same class as your daughterās safe schools. My wife went to Memphis because it was effectively free and med school wasnāt. We finally paid our professional school debt after 20 years.
Save the money.
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Bonus, she likely was a part of a great hoops tradition.
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Memphis, only university with 500+ menās basketball victories and 10 year football bowl streak in past 20 years.
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Did she go to med school at UT in Memphis ?
Yes
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