Thanks for all the well wishes last week. D25 lost a classmate to suicide. D25 already has a therapist, and I’m so glad. But she was also very open about it with us, too. This is utterly devastating. Hug your kids tight, y’all.
I will also say I wasn’t going to share the details because they’re not really about my child, but apropos the above discussion about extreme competition for arbitrary accolades, I thought I would. D25’s high school has had 2 kids commit suicide in 4 years. I don’t know if competition was a direct cause, but teenagers have enough stress going through puberty and preparing for adulthood. This is a toxic, toxic culture that rewards very, very few who play. It deserves to be called out and ridiculed just as much as other big money schemes that are trying to instill crap values into my kids for money, clicks, or views.
I’m so sorry. We had this happen at my sons school last year as well. the boy was in my sons class. It makes me so sad that they see no way out of their pain.
I’m so sorry for your daughter, her classmates, and your whole community. That’s an unimaginable loss. I’m glad she has support and is able to talk with you. You’re absolutely right that this pressure is harmful. It’s heartbreaking to think a child can’t see a way through. Thinking of you and your daughter and holding my kids a little tighter tonight.
Our community has suffered the loss of a student and a teacher due to suicide this year. They haunt me and I never knew either of them. I’m so sorry your community is going through the same. May there be space for grieving, comfort for those struggling with the loss or their own demons, and may we find a better way as a society to support and give light to those in dark places. Hugs to you and yours!
This is all too frequent, we had a suicide at my son’s school this year as well as at the local Catholic school down the street. Fairly small community. It is heartbreaking.
So sad your daughter and her classmates are going through this. Our school is not a huge district and I think we have had at least 1 student death in the district almost every school year since MS, either for suicide or an accident. None that my own kids have known closely but it still is a hard thing to deal with, especially at this age. I agree, the pressure these kids feel is too much to bear. I hear it from my own kids, the girls in my younger daughter’s girl scout troop, and their friends. They are so busy, stressed about homework and grades and being perfect all the time. It’s not healthy at all and they don’t have the coping skills to deal with this level of stress.
this doesn’t surprise me. A private college counselor friend told me for engineering basically what would be a safety becomes a target, and a target a reach. not quite that dramatic, but close.
I am not sure this is common knowledge but I think it is true. So many are applying for STEM majors (CS/engineering in particular) it is more competitive and they don’t have seats for every kid. It is more expensive to make more engineering sections than English, too. Also, I suspect kids drawn to engineering tend to have higher scores/grades etc since it is a hard road to go down.
I am so sorry your community is going through this. It is heart wrenching.
And I totally agree with the above. We need to change culture to learning and doing one’s best, not competition and running around for arbitrary awards.
I am so sorry your daughter is going through this. My prayers to this family who is suffering through this awful unimaginable loss.
And yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your other sentiments. My son’s university has had very public suicides almost year year (i.e. they were found in public spaces so it’s not something they can pretend never happened). In addition he knows of others that happened. At least 7 over 7 semesters. These kids are really struggling and society as a whole continues to foster this with waiving a hand at them, saying it’s setting them up for the future and pretending it’s not the enormous problem that it is.
It is an unhealthy culture no doubt. I think many of us are partly to blame. We obsess over the process and the outcome, even with good intentions, myself included.
I think the colleges themselves are very much the nexus though, and shoulder a lot of the blame. I do wish colleges would just institute academic minimums, like they do in England. Maybe focus less on ECs. Allow high schoolers to be teenagers. Reduce the fluff, reduce the applications.
For our family, our focus was always fit and had nothing to do with name brand. It meant we had a list of schools spread all across the rank spectrum. My kid applied to no UCs as a CA resident, even though he had a very strong profile. He has one Ivy and it is on the list purely because of fit, just as much as the schools on his list outside the T100.
It’s easier to do this as an English major and as a full pay family. We know not every student has that freedom.
If your major is very dependent on a handful of programs it’s more challenging I’m sure. I’ve never looked at engineering to understand the options/competition for spots.
Our journeys are all so different in that regard and we’re looking at this process through very different lenses. Mine is first and foremost about where my trans son will be safe and supported.
In the current system, there are way more qualified students than there are spots at some schools, and there is a big element of luck. Giving yourself better odds by expanding your options is a start. There are so many good schools out there, and a lot of merit aid to be had! Maybe it’s time to wrest control away from the colleges.
This is heartbreaking and my sympathies go out to your daughter and the whole community. A student died by suicide my daughter’s freshman year of college, she lived in the same dorm just a few doors down from my daughter and it was devastating to her as well as the entire community, and took a long time to grieve the terrible loss. I’m glad your daughter has support. Hold your loved ones close and keep talking about this issue, it’s so important not to dismiss it as normal.
This thread, and particularly this post from @vwlizard, might be helpful reading with respect to the pressures, causes, and possible solutions of the college admissions process:
I think this is only partially true. I can’t absolve the universities from part of the blame. They have helped create an environment of exclusivity and worth related to extra curriculars. That drives students to engage in pursuits beyond their time limitations and wellbeing. This is not practiced in England. It is not how it has to be. Most students in England are not killing themselves over ECs in the same way students are in the US. I have family who work in academia there and they are very aware of the differences between the UK and the US students. I do think parents shoulder blame too, but colleges have made this so much worse.
Agreed, except: Colleges haven’t made this so much worse, highly selective colleges practicing what they call “holistic review” have made this so much worse.
And their sins have been visited upon the entire sector.
It is very much aligned with highly selective schools, except we are now seeing the trickle down effect and schools that used to be somewhat easy to get into are now becoming more difficult.
Which is what you were saying I think
There is something to be said about corporate hiring and graduate programs as well. It’s easier to justify a new hire or accepted student if they have the “pedigree” (regardless of the “truth”) This seems to be slowly changing but not fast enough. Major changes to the landscape in this regard could make huge waves (e.g. if UC Merced guaranteed med school acceptance to their top 1/4 of their class if their MCATs were above some limit, how many more apps do you think they will get?)
[edit: eh, UC schools are a bad example as they don’t get into the applicants’ ECs that much but one can make a reasonable substitute. Say U of Indiana]
I’ve read a little on the topic of competitive clubs and it does sound ridiculous how extreme things have gotten. But the question I have is, especially at the schools that can afford it, why not start a parallel club? Wouldn’t the opportunity to gather the community and reach out to, say, business contacts be good experience? A family member loves telling the story of how back in the day at their school there were two asian clubs: Chinese Student Union and the Chinese Student Association. The leadership of one mainly spoke mandarin and the other spoke cantonese. Most of the students joined both
I meant undergrad. I thought it was just a list, but my kid didn’t apply so I wasn’t paying much attention to it. Perhaps I’m getting my CSUs vs UCs mixed up.
[edit: apparently I have You are correct that the UC app allows for more detail in the ECs vs Common App as well as CSU app]
You are correct that the UC app allows for more detail in the ECs vs Common App as well as CSU app]