I’ll look that up. Thank you.
I think most parents don’t want to infringe on their adult child’s right to privacy. The issue is being able to help your child when they are not able to help themselves. I would imagine doing some research on the state your child is going to college would be helpful.
Whether you pay for this information or not is a personal choice. Some of us use attorneys/services and some of us do it ourselves.
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So I have a random thing. S25 has to take four AP exams. At our school, if you take the AP course, you are expected to take the exam. The school pays for the exam, so that’s not an issue, but you can only get the .5 bump to your GPA if you take the exam.
This year his exams are:
May 6th, 8 AM - AP Chem (four hour long test)
May 6th, 12 PM - AP Gov
May 7th, 8 AM - English Lit
May 8th, 8 AM - Statistics
He has an IEP, and the IEP gives him time and a half on the AP exams. Last year he didn’t need the time and a half on Calc or Physics, but did on AP Lang. (He didn’t have the accommodation in place for APHUG, but didn’t need extra time then.) The rule used to be that if you had time and a half, you had to sit there for the extra time allotted to each section, including the last, and you could never leave or move on earlier. The rule has now changed, and you can move at your own pace, so if you are done with a section earlier than the allotted 150% of time you move forward, but you can’t go back or get that section’s extra time somewhere else. If he uses any extra time, at all, then he can’t take the AP Chem and AP Gov exams on the same day. As it is, they will be putting the (small number) of AP Chem kids who are also taking AP Gov into their own room, as they will need a slightly delayed start so that they can eat lunch.
There is a makeup day for AP Gov. It’s May 20th. For seniors, starting the week of May 19th and for two weeks only, they are supposed to be on “senior experience”, which is an internship opportunity. This used to be four weeks long, but now is only two weeks. He’s excited about his internship and really doesn’t want to miss the second day of it when he’s brand new (it’s going to lead into his summer job) to take an AP exam.
It’s possible that he could finish Chem in time, and go on to take Gov. But it’s not really something that the school wants to do as a gametime decision, they’d like to know ahead of time.
The other option, if he really doesn’t want to do the exam on the 19th, is that he could just not take it. The guidance counselor in charge has said, given the extenuating circumstances, she would make sure he still got the .5 bump to that class to average into his GPA (not that it matters at that point). Taking the AP exam doesn’t matter at any of the schools he’s seriously considering. At his top two choices it could offset a generic elective requirement under his major, but he already has other classes that could do that as well and doesn’t need this specific AP credit for anything. At the other it would just give him credit to more advanced standing and nothing towards major requirements. At his current last choice (of five) schools it would replace a mandatory class so it could be useful, but it is very unlikely he would attend this school.
So. With that painfully long backstory. Do I: (1) Let him try to take both tests in one day on the 6th, which means he doesn’t get the extra time he’s permitted for chem?; (2) Tell him he has to do the postponed date on the 20th, which means he misses the second day on the job for his internship? or (3) Let him skip the test all together?
The guidance counselor told me that she discussed all of this with him in school today, so I’m going to see what he’s thinking when I get home. I’m still mulling all of this over, but I think I’m inclined to just let him do whatever he wants, as I don’t think it will make a huge difference either way. Which, frankly, is kind of surprising to me - I’m not normally a risk taker (try to do both in a day, obvious downside of potential exhaustion) or a rule flouter (don’t take the test at all, even thought that’s the expectation). I’d imagine he would do very well on this AP exam, at least a four, decent likelihood of a five. He does great in the class. But if he doesn’t need it, then maybe why bother?
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I’d do 1 or 3. It doesn’t sound like it’s worth missing a great experience for given all you’ve said.
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Wow - I’m amazed at how unbelievably similar our kids situations are. Both AP classes present and past, IEP’s, senior internship timing too. I completely understand your dilemma.
Only difference is my kid is not doing Chem, he’s doing a different AP that does not happen on the same day as Gov. But I understand where you’re coming from and would have the same questions.
Personally, I would have my kid pick one of the APs that day and call it a day. If he doesn’t get a huge benefit out of the credit it’s not worth it (although getting out of a college class would be great). Plus doing 2 extended time APs on the same day - ugh!
Good luck! I hope it all works out.
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I would lean toward option 3 (skip the test) unless he really wants option 1 (both in the same day). The AP exams really don’t matter that much. At the college where I work, we have a limit on how many they can count. I want to say it’s about 6 max. Often, they just count as credits, but not toward anything specific not even the general curriculum. A few might be used for placement. Those are typically math or science exams rather than English or History. I would have your son check AP policy at the college he is planning (most likely anyway) to attend before he chooses. My daughter has 4 APs this year too, I think but can’t remember. I don’t know yet if she’ll take them all. Honestly, I just don’t think they matter that much.
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To clarify on the minidiscussion I started, I would say that I draw a strong distinction between fit and preference.
Do you have a preference for a smaller college? Or a preference for a college that offers a particular less frequently offered major? Or a preference for one with a winning women’s basketball team? Sure, that all scans. And preferences can be really, really important, too! Like, do you have a preference for a college that has suitable supports for a student with your specific learning disability? Or do you have a preference for a college located in an area where you as an LGBTand/orQ student can freely live as yourself? Or a preference for one where you feel safe walking across campus?
But those are all very large bins. Those are not questions of fit.
Here’s an idea for explaining what I mean: I have a preference for well-made black leather slip-on dress shoes. But colleges are not like shoes in at least one big important way: Shoes hug the curves of their wearers’ bodies very closely. With shoes, fit matters—if there is one piece of a shoe that’s wrong for someone’s body (say, for one that’s very important to my footwear choices, the vamp is built too close to the sole), it will create pain and can even be somewhat disabling.
Colleges, though, even the smallest colleges, are big enough that that isn’t an issue. Fit isn’t a problem within any of the large bins created by preference, because there is room for multiple fits. It would be as if there was a magical shoe that both had more room at the vamp for people with feet like mine and less room for people with differently shaped feet. But that doesn’t happen with shoes, because shoes are physical objects. Colleges, though, are not physical objects in the same way—they are large collections of lots of different things, and therefore there will never be a perfect fit between any given student and any given college, but that’s not because it’s a bad fit, it’s because fit is a meaningless term when applied to something like that.
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My thoughts:
- Senior spring GPA is meaningless (assuming you pass everything, et cetera).
1a. Weighted GPA of senior spring is even more meaningless. - Students should only take AP tests that will provide credits (or placement) that will be useful for them. Taking AP tests for the purpose of taking AP tests does nothing beyond enrich the College Board and create extra paperwork costs for universities.
2a. Not always but certainly often enough, getting credits or placement through AP scores can be detrimental for a student who misses out on learning foundational material in a college environment, which no matter what the College Board claims is not usually duplicated in an AP classroom.
Which does not give an answer to your quandary, but I do think it gives some useful guidelines in deciding which tests are worth it.
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Agreed. Just like some use college coaches or pay for essay reviews. The way MB is talked about though so frequently (as if its the only option out there), I just hate to see people who may not have the money paying for a service that they can do themselves.
(HIPAA forms and FERPA forms are free too.)
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To me the goal of college selection is to maximize the conditions in which a student can succeed. And if you are gay it’s not really a preference to attend a college that is known for being gay friendly, it’s kind of an imperative for success. If you need learning accommodations it’s not a preference, it’s an imperative for success. If you have medical issues that you know may require specialists that area may not have strong doctors in, that’s an imperative for success.
Calling it a “preference” undercuts the importance of these things. And they can create pain and can be disabling. So call it a fit or calling it a whatever isn’t the point, the point is there are serious considerations that go into these decisions and they should not be taken likely. My other point is that many colleges fit this and it’s not just one, so people drastically overthink it.
But there are many serious considerations that can take large numbers of schools off the list that can drastically alter student success.
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You are keeping preference and need separate, while also having large overlap between need and fit, which I agree is a reasonable set of definitional choices—but it isn’t the set that I am using.
The problem is that definitions don’t have clean borders, and so issues like this are bound to come up—which is why I figured I should provide the definitions that I’m working with. (And also to hopefully describe why I feel like, in a context like the CC fora, collapsing need and fit is rhetorically problematic.)
Yes- that’s an excellent point. Your expertise in this area is very valuable for other parents. I just know that we’ve had reasons to go beyond the basics and it’s been very helpful. Everyone has different circumstances so it’s helpful to dig a little deeper sometimes.
A piece of info that I can share: We had our daughter sign all the recommended forms but we knew we wouldn’t get a call unless she was incapacitated. She did end up in the ER twice freshman year and we had no idea. We found out because our insurance company sent us the statement- thank fully we still had this one connection, which allowed us to step in and help her.
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I’d go with what he wants to do.
That said I’ll say the one thing for my oldest those AP credits (or lack thereof) hurt him was registration, he was ALWAYS one of the last to go and as such got the bad professors, the bad times, or didn’t get classes at all. It caused a lot of frustration and massive amounts of planning to redirect on classes that were still available.
Probably an unpopular opinion and it’s a non-issue for my youngest, but for my oldest we definitely laid some ground rules re: senior slump. In our opinion slacking off for the final 6 months of school and 3 months of summer doesn’t prepare you to launch to college as well as continuing to practice your same habits off studying, understanding, working hard. With these conversations came the same conversations on college performance expectations which is to say I’m not paying X to have you party and do poorly, you can do that at community college for a lot less if that’s your goal. One of the stipulations for our financial support of college was he hold up his end of the deal and take it seriously, and what happened if he didn’t hold up his end of the deal. He knew going in what our expectations were and that we were serious about holding him to those. The second half of senior year was part of that. Grades mean nothing, it’s about continuing the same work ethic and habits.
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Semantics.
I’m hesistant to dip my feet in this water with a linguistics expert - if I remember correctly, that is your expertise right? 
It’s an interesting discussion for sure.
My simple way of looking at this is - What does my kid NEED, to THRIVE in college?
There are likely many options for him and he could have varying degrees of success, as yet unknown.
But at the top of that list is safety - it is not JUST a preference.
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Yep, had that happen to me too. I get a bill for an ambulance ride 3 hours from home in the mail. I call adult child who lives in that city and ask if he forgot to tell me something. He says “oops. Remember when I told you I broke my glasses and needed new ones. I was punched and had a bloody nose and some nursing students freaked out and called 911. I thought I told you that.” No buddy, mom would very much remember if you told me the ambo showed up! Same kid was also in the ED 2 other times with cops as crazy former roommate kept calling on him saying he was suicidal (he wasnt). The third time in the er for same issue kid finally asked social worker to call me and we developed a plan to get him a new place to live (social worker told me my kid was a delight but roommates were controlling and causing his insomnia to flare.) Even with signed forms they would not have automatically call me until he asked.
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Right!
Basically, anything that cuts across large swaths of possibilities, I’m lumping together under the label preference. Maybe there’s a better term, because that certainly can include needs—but either way it really doesn’t seem to me to be a question of fit, you know? Fit to me implies that there’s a specific singular place (or at least a very small number of them) that would work for someone. And for, say, LGBTQ students, being safe to be themselves at college isn’t a matter of finding the one or two places where that can happen, it’s a matter of making a big slice across the entire sector.
I like to use the words ‘needs’ and ‘desires’. I’m sure other people have their own words. I don’t like preferences and needs in the same column though. I put preferences with desires.
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Can you explain the link between AP credits and place in the registration queue?
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Re: AP credits and registration - if you have enough AP credits that are counted as courses at your college, you can advance your standing to be counted as “older” than you are. So my S22 entered college a semester ahead. He took a summer school course after his first year, and that was enough to push him a full year ahead with the AP credits he had.
Incoming freshman at his school register only for fall classes before school begins. So when he went to register for freshman spring classes, instead of registering at the time allotted for freshmen who had completed one semester, he was counted as a rising sophomore, and could register ahead of the freshmen who didn’t have any AP credits. Then, after he took that summer school course and pushed further ahead, when he went to register this year, instead of being counted as a rising junior, he was counted as a rising senior.
The earlier your register for classes, the more availability there is.
At many schools, this same status applies for housing. If he had wanted to live on campus, he would’ve had an earlier housing lottery pick because the AP credits pushed him “ahead” of other students. Even if the credits can’t really be used toward your major, if the school counts them towards some kind of elective, you may earn enough to push you to a semester “ahead” when it comes time to register.
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Take Chem without accommodations (he was fine without them on physics & calc; so what if he gets a 4 vs a 5) then Gov with accommodations. Don’t skip the internship day.
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