Everyone has their own definition, I was talking with my sister once about this and mentioned someone wanting to go to Cornell and she scoffed “oh Cornell the bottom of the Ivys” I had to tell her lots of people want to go there and she said what over like Berkeley and UCLA ?
She’s in NJ and not particularly impressed by schools outside of HYPSM. Outside of that to her most schools are the same and she thinks UCLA/Cal brands are stronger than other Ivys. Mention this to some of my friends in the Bay Area and they fall over. Dartmouth/Columbia are dream schools while the UCLA/Cal are ok. Nevermind the rest the of the UCs. So expand that to T20, is UCSD a T20 ? Michigan ? USC ? I have no idea I think they are all great schools and different fits for different kids. Lots of successful people in my line of work who went to schools most people don’t think of when they think tech.
One successful apple exec I know went to a music conservatory for composition.
I don’t think it’s a “worthy” issue at all – IMHO, there’s no good or universal way to rank universities. So in my head, the T20 designation is just a perception. People have the perception that Ivies are “better” than large public schools, and for sure they admit students with higher stats.
That’s generalizing, of course – I’m well aware that each Ivy is pretty different.
Do I personally think they’re better than some of the well-regarded publics? Not necessarily. Depends on context.
But I’ll be real, I have no idea which public you’re referring to that is a literal T20 and also on all those other lists, although maybe I could guess. Michigan? UT Austin? UNC? Maybe one of the UC schools?
Anyway, my own perception of T20 is the Ivies, Ivy Plus and Little Ivies. I wasn’t meaning to diminish any other school.
She was talking about UC Berkeley. If you live here in the east bay, its credentials are touted all the time ad nauseum as being at or near the top of all the lists alongside the privates.
I never heard of “T20” till I got on these boards. Now that you all have explained it to me I’m realizing it is a virtually useless moniker. While I have my gripes about how people talk about what the Ivy League is, at least it is a clear and defined thing. 8 schools and it has been those 8 schools in that athletic league my entire life.
Well I looked at the US News list someone posted earlier today and by a literal definition, Rice was one of the T20 there, so you can tell those folks to suck it.
I feel like I got us down this T20 rabbit hole with my ignorance. I should say, one of the things I love about this group, is that it does not seem overly focused on the narrow band of highly selective and high prestige schools. Folks here are excited about so many schools that are not those, and I love that. Because, I firmly believe there are tons of excellent colleges and universities and most of them are not on that list. Moreover, those schools are not the right place for most students even if they could get in. So I love that we collectively spend more time on those of you raving about schools that are not those. Not that folks are haters of those schools, it’s just the perspective here seems right to me and great. I appreciate you all more than you know.
One of my best friends went to Williams, and my two cousins on my dad’s side went to Amherst and Swarthmore. Then Amherst cousin got her PhD from Cornell, and Swarthmore cousin got her MD from Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
My husband’s cousins went to Harvard, Cornell and WashU. (The Harvard cousin married a guy from Yale, and they joked that it was a “mixed marriage” lol. This couple works on Wall Street and just bought a gazillion dollar house in Westchester.) The Cornell cousin got her MD…somewhere that I’m forgetting.
DH and I frequently joke that we are the dumbest folk in our family. (Syracuse and Florida)
But like you said, I’m a firm believer in fit. It was important for my D22 to go to a well-ranked school, and she has the temperament for it, so she made it happen. S25’s school is not even ranked (I don’t think? Don’t actually know), but it’s a great place for him.
And D26, if she is lucky enough to get into the 30-something ranked school she applied to, is fully prepared to turn it down for an 80-something ranked school if she’s lucky enough to get into that one. Because, fit.
I believe that perception is US-centric. Globally, some of the Ivies are very well-regarded (typically the ones in HYPSM)… but schools like Brown and Dartmouth don’t necessarily have name recognition compared to (for example) UChicago, Caltech, JHU, etc., and certain publics like UCB, UCLA, UMich (all in USN T20 as well).
Huang credits his time at Oregon State with expanding his understanding of computers. “This is where I really fell in love with technology, thanks to a few great professors and some classes that set my mind on fire. Everything I have learned over the past decades is built on the strong foundation I gained here."
That makes sense. Brown and Dartmouth are the two most undergrad focused Ivys and their research and grad students are less where they get their names/reputation. They feel like they function more like LACs on the international stage than the other Ivys.
yup!