@AbsDad are your twins looking for merit aid as well as FA?
Re: divorced parents cooperating to game the financial aid system at FAFSA-only college
That is presumably the reason why many colleges require non-custodial parent information. However, the effect of that is likely to block many students from uncooperative divorced parents from getting financial aid that they actually need for every student with divorced parents cooperating to game the financial aid system in ways not desired by the colleges.
I.e. it is not just the financial aid dollars that they are taking that are not available for other students at that college. It is that they are creating more incentives for colleges to implement policies that make it more difficult for actually needy students to get financial aid.
That is one reason why University of Chicago went FAFSA (plus a short form of their own) only…and does not require non-custodial parent information.
There are other Profile schools that also do not require non-custodial parent information as well.
No such college exists.
Colleges that “meet full need” meet the need as they determine it – not FAFSA EFC.
At the low end of the economic spectrum that may be essentially the same thing.
But for families that own a home or operate their own small business, it can be very different.
To the OP: the best thing you can to to structure assets and finances to put your kids through college is to set up a 529 and put the maximum you can afford into it. There is no such thing as guaranteed financial aid anywhere – all you will do by restructuring assets to lower your FAFSA EFC, at best, would be to possibly qualify your twins to get a small subsidized loans and work study grants at very expensive colleges – but you will have no control whatsoever in that process, because your kids may not get into the colleges that offer the aid you are looking for.
Much better at your income level to encourage your twins to do their best and to look for schools that will grant substantial merit aid.
@romanigypsyeyes Look, I am not the one who did it. I gave up a lot of other things in my divorce to get an iron clad agreement that our offspring could attend any college without financial considerations. So, please understand I’m not advocating this. But, the story happened a lot of years ago…and I assure you, it is a true story.
Do I think it’s ethical? Nope. However, I do not see the father in this scenario as any more unethical than the ex H of my friend who stopped paying child support within a few weeks of getting divorced and moving to another country.
Personally, if I ruled the world, EVERY divorce decree would include a provision as to how college will be paid for even if the kid is still in utero at the time of the divorce. But that’s not how it works in most states.
@calmom yes you are absolutely right that the majority of colleges that meet full need will meet it based on their definition of need- which typically includes the css profile and is not based solely on the FAFSA EFC - I was not entirely clear. There are schools - not many- that do meet the FAFSA EFC despite also being profile schools.
@twogirls … they are looking at all aid. That is another thing the company does, try to find who gives the best merit aid for the majors they want… Both are top 8% of their class, with a weighted 4.6 GPA.
According to the company we hired the WORST thing we can do at this point is a 529… They showed us far better options on where to LEGALLY place your money where the colleges do not look.
They are strong students but given how competitive these colleges are, it’s very smart to add some merit schools.
Are they suggesting annuities?
Just keep on mind…there are very few places to “put your money where colleges do not look”.
If it’s still your money, and you still want access to it…it’s hard to “hide”.
If you think you are getting good value, AbsDad, then it’s worth it to you to pay for this service just like some people pay to have their taxes done, their lawn trimmed, and their snow shoveled. It’s your money. Many on CC have seen cases over the years where people paid thousands and didn’t really benefit and then come to CC when it is really to late to apply to the big merit schools, to the hidden gems LACs, to lower cost schools that offer merit and other perks, and they can’t afford the elite schools that only award need based aid.
I’ll tell you that I had 2 kids start school the same year, I made less than your $175k amount, their EFC’s were about $19k each, and they got no need based aid, one at a public school and one at a private. I really think your kids with their good scores and grades will do better in the merit arena than the need based aid one.
Another issue with merit versus FA is that merit is guaranteed for four years as long as you meet the GPA requirement. FA can fluctuate from year to year.
The colleges won’t look at assets in retirement accounts, like 401K’s – but other than that there is no “legal” way to hide the assets. And assets aren’t the primary driver in any case - it is the $175K income that is the primary determinant of financial aid ability. So if you really want a lot of financial aid, you could quit your job. (or retire early, if that’s an option). But for most people that is going to hurt a lot worse than simply paying your fair share for college.
I’d be very wary of the advice you are being given In your income bracket, if you are being counseled to move assets around to shelter them, I think you are being sold a bill of goods.
Just want to give you our story. My girls are 15 months apart. Both got into a “100% meets need school” our EFC was about $24,000 the first year she went, that is what we paid. The next year, for 2 kids at the same top 20 school, we paid about $29,000 (which we considered a deal, but still had to work very hard to budget, save and pay as we go). By the time our oldest graduated, our EFC/CSS profile kept changing to the point we paid $35,000 for this year (our middle’s last year), which was more than we could afford. Our income did not go up by that much, so the increase seemed ridiculous and even when we pressed the for the formula they used to come up with the number, they couldn’t provide that. Eventually, after supplying medical bills, payments we made for our oldest girl’s med school and our youngest’s governor’s school, they came down $5000, which put it back into the “choke it down” range. We do not regret sending our girls to their dream school and we did it knowing the financial sacrifice. However, I wish I had known how much that number could change over the years!
Not only can your EFC change from year to year which will affect what you pay at a school that meets full need, you also have to compare merit awards.
If you receive $15,000 at an out of state school whose total cost of attendance is $50,000, that means you will pay $35,000 the first year (possibly less if you save on books, etc). If the total cost of attendance rises to $51,500 the following year ( tuition increase) you will now pay $36,500 ( again, depending on books etc). The merit does not rise to make up the difference in a tuition increase. At a private school where tuition alone could be $45,000+ a year, a half tuition scholarship is better than a flat award of $22,500 because the scholarship will rise with tuition.
Many people don’t anticipate their EFC rising or the cost of the school rising each year. You also have to consider health insurance. My older daughter stayed instate so all we had to do was send them a copy of the insurance card. My younger daughter is out of state and our insurance had to be approved by the school. If the doctors and campus health did not take it ( they do because it’s the same insurance that the school offers), then we would have had to buy the schools insurance. This could have added another $1500 ± per year.
@absdad I would sit down with the twins and tell them what you can afford. Then I would make a list of schools that may give them enough merit or aid to bring it down to that cost. I would also add some financial safeties to the list- these may be your state schools. The safety schools ( these include financial safeties) are often the hardest to find.
AbsDad, as another parent of twins who also paid a private company to assist us with college planning, I applaud you for taking the initiative to start the college-planning process early and collect as much knowledge and information you can to provide your children with the best opportunities available. In our case, it was absolutely a worthwhile investment and resulted in out-of-pocket costs that were the most attainable for us. When I tell friends that we are paying a fraction of in-state tuition costs for our twins to attend top private schools with enormous price tags, most are in disbelief and had no idea that could even be possible. We would have been among them had it not been for the advice of our consultant. And it was thanks to the private consultant that we knew exactly which private schools to consider to cover 100% or near 100% of our need-based aid. Our EFC for each child was just under $12,000. One student is attending a school with our cost after aid is applied being $8600 (well below our EFC) and the other received aid that covered about 75% of the COA. Not only were both great matches for our children and their number one choices, but both were also the least expensive options for us. As you stated, we learned a great deal from the consultant and he continues to guide us throughout the time our children are enrolled.
Though many of the responses were unfortunately negative and “snarky” as you noted, I agree with some that suggested investing in test prep. Merit-aid will be more of a factor for you I think and test scores unfortunately will be what your award is based on. Good luck to you and your twins as you embark on this journey!
@absdad needs to complete the NPC at schools that meet need to see if the cost is in the ball park. He needs to pay the EFC and although I agree that a consultant is fine if he wants to hire one, there is only so much that a consultant can legally do to “hide” money from colleges in order to lower the EFC. EFC is primarily income based. I do think this family may do better with merit, however they need to understand that in order to get significant merit you need to go down in the rankings.
Just an FYI @AbsDad read post 12 of this thread of yours.
There is no undergrad physical therapy major at UNC-CH…for any price. Merit aid for OOS students at UNC is not likely going to be a happening either.
I guess UNC is the $50,000 out of state school of interest. There is no PT major where you automatically gain acceptance to the grad school. Additionally- getting in as an OOS student is highly competitive and receiving merit will be next to impossible. If they do get in ( or one gets in) then the school will give them FA.
Our twins were admitted out of state to UNC last year. With an EFC of 20,000 - each received a 25,000 a year grant from UNC plus a computer grant that would have paid for a new computer for each of them. It brought the total cost down to about 30,000 a year for each. They both picked different, less expensive colleges for undergrad.
I agree to concentrate on high gpa and test scores to qualify for merit aid. Every school- public or private that they applied to seemed to find money to bring the cost down to between 15-30 per kid (total cost- tuition/room/board etc). Some were big scholarships, others grant money- but by far the least expensive overall were our in state public schools and the top LACs.
Between the two of them they applied to 22 schools(some of the same ones- a few different).
Have an idea of what you can pay and communicate that to your kids, then cast a wide, thoughtful net of safety, match, and reach schools.