<p>Anyone out there think that parents are way too involved in the college admission process?</p>
<p>Some are and some are not too involved. You cannot lump all parents into one group. Every parent is an individual and every student has individual needs and interests. I noticed, BTW, that you think some parents push too hard. Why would you want to be critical of parents? On the whole they love their children and want to support and help them.</p>
<p>Hi NE: You are absolutely correct in your observation that I shouldn’t lump all parents into one category. Both extremes, “hyper-parenting” and “under-parenting” in the college process can adversely affect the child.</p>
<p>As far as being critical of pushy parents, there is plenty of reason to be. Too many “loving and supportive” parents are causing their children problems such as depression, anxiety, eating disorders, etc. because they are pushing their children to become perfect candidates for “elite” colleges. Too many parents mislead their children by making them think that attending an “elite” college is the prescription for professional success and happiness. There is no evidence supporting that, yet many parents convince their children that “Ivy” is the only way to go.</p>
<p>Also, not all parents push their children out of “love and support.” Many do it for selfish reasons.</p>
<p>Speaking just for myself, I think I am a bit too involved. I love researching the colleges, visiting them with my daughter, reading CC. But my goal is to help D find a good fit for her. I am not focused on prestige and never have been. As far as I know, I haven’t pushed her into depression! She’s holding up pretty well and is enjoying the last half of her senior year.</p>
<p>While some Parents are too involved it doesn’t sound to me like you are giving Parents enough credit as a whole. Our many years of life and life experience allows us to make value judgements and coach our children on such things as career choices, finance, quality of life, methods to make decisions and the importance of getting things done in a timely manner when deadlines have to be met. Many 16 and 17 year olds aren’t up to these types of challenges as of yet and do need a bit of prodding.</p>
<p>Parents I think are pretty good judges of striking a good balance when looking at potential schools as far as difficulty, cost, and value add. It does matter when you finish college where you went and how well you did. There is always a danger in setting the bar too high, but likewise it’s also not a good idea to set it too low. For some career fields a solid state school isn’t going to be good enough in other ones it would be.</p>
<p>We know that you don’t like to hear stop doing IM and get going on those essay’s that need to be turned in this week, but with some kids it’s something you have to so just like getting good grades is important.</p>
<p>Sounds like you’ve done a good job with your daughter. Seems like you struck a good balance and kept things in proper perspective. Just curious, though, do you know of parents who are overly involved, or are any of your daughter’s peers stressed out because of parental pressure?</p>
<p>OBW, I do agree with you too. There are pushy parents, needing for their kid to get into an Ivy. I am not one them, but there are many such parents in our community. SAT prep begins in 3rd grade for some of these kids! I believe that many want their kid in a prestigous 40,000+ private, but cannot afford it. They are pushing their kid so that they can get major merit aid too. This has just been my observation. My kids have told me that some of these kids are very fearful of their parents. My older son saw a couple of these kids crying in hs for reasons such as a “0” on one homework assignment (forgot the reason for the “0” one student was issued, but in the grand scheme it was meaningless-she was still getting an A for the marking period), or crying b/c the student expected a 100% and only received a 96%. Believe me, my son did not have the gpa to relate to this in any way. He told me about it b/c he found it so bizarre.</p>
<p>What do you think those “selfish reasons” would be? I am so selfish that I would rather give up having a new car every year so my kids could go to private school. I am so selfish that I would work 14-16 hours a day, give up having a bigger house and travel around the world, just so I could pay $50,000 a year for their college tuition. I don’t think you are old but wise, you are old and bitter.</p>
<p>Ray111: Agreed. You make many good points. The one point I disagree with is the one where you indicate that “it does matter where you went.”
Perhaps to some degree that is true, but a student’s ultimate success is much more closely related to the attributes of the student (intelligence, motivation, character, etc.) than where he went to school.</p>
<p>I believe that a student should go to a school where he is challenged, feels "connected, flourishes academically and feel good about himself. It doesn’t necessarily mean a “brand name” school.</p>
<p>Just curious, too, about your comment that a solid state school won’t cut it for certain career fields. What career fields do you have in mind?</p>
<p>Old and Wise I also wanted to add and perhaps it’s a diferent thread that pushy parents I think are far outwayed by the kids like the 100’s of them on these pages that are pushing themselves too hard. One just has to read here on CC and other college sites like Peterson’s the long list’s of Stat’s and kids complaining about lousy GPA’s of 3.5 and SAT test scores ONLY in the 1200’s. To me this phobia amongst alot of kids where they always perceive that the glass is half empty vrs half full and not being able to put their own positive accomplishments in the right perspective is a far greater risk to them than the small number of what I think to be pushy parents.</p>
<p>NE MOM: Thank you. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Unfortunately, it sounds bizarre, but it’s quite common.</p>
<p>Obiwan, many parents are overinvolved, many too pushy. But just because a pushy parent has a depressed unhappy kid does not mean that parent’s pushiness is necessarily the cause of kid’s unhappy depression. </p>
<p>Alas, I think I am not pushy enough and will have to live with my kid telling me he wishes I had pushed him a little harder. (message: you can’t win)</p>
<p>Old and Wise, I recently took an early retirement. I worked in Industry for 35 + years as a background I have a BSME, MSIE, and MBA. All came from private schools. During my many years of Engineering and Program management I recruited and hired many Engineers so that is what I am most familiar with. The times did change as time went on, from what used to be a pretty wide open field at the beginning it has shrunk to just a few top schools right now that we would hire from. MIT, RPI, Carniege Mellon, Case, Stanford are a few examples.</p>
<p>I also hear that Architecture, Medical, Chem Engineering, Fashion Design, Physics are some other examples of where you have to go to highest level schools to be able to have a shot at either getting a good entry level positon or as a springboard to going to doing your Graduate work.</p>
<p>I think that it is hard to know, except in obvious cases, when parents are being too pushy. Personally, though I am sure that most of the parenting that people on this board describe works for them and their families, for me, it would be too pushy. Except for a very rare gentle reminder, my parents basically never tell me to stop watching TV and do my homework, or to finish an essay, or anything like that. I don’t really have rules about how I spend my free time (Not that I can go out drinking or anything!). My parents have basically never kept me in activities that I didn’t really want to do, and they have never pushed me to join activities. I tell them about college, and I respect their input, but beyond referring me to an odd college article or asking me when admissions decisions will be ready, they are pretty hands off. This works for me. I do what I “should” on my own–I don’t need people pushing me. Some kids do need more of a parental push and structure, and that’s fine, too. But sometimes, I see kids whose parents are either pushing them to do things that they just don’t want to do, or who don’t give their kids enough credit (they treat them like they just got out of juvie when they are great kids). It is a common refrain of mine that those pushy parents, like the ones that northeastmom described, are engaged in the ultimate folly–you cannot have drive and determination for another person. Sooner or later, people just cannot be pushed to do one more thing that they don’t want to do. It doesn’t always or even usually end in despair, but eventually the kid just doesn’t do the work anymore–the game is up.</p>
<p>P.S. A least for Architecture, you can get plenty far with a degree from a good Architecture program, even from a state school. My father is an Associate Principal at his firm (BA-Princeton, M-Rice (pretty prestigious :))), and one of the Principals recieved his degrees from U of I (not that U of I is a podunk state school or anything). This isn’t a 10 person firm, either. Of course, a prestigious degree can certainly help…my father is pretty excited to be getting regular interns from Rice, so the foot in the door might hold up in some ways.</p>
<p>Advantagious, Kudo’s to you you sound like a very mature person and I’d agree that you don’t need much help from the Parental units just their support and interest. I’m also glad to see that you cite that not all kids are like you and do need more than that casual checkin. </p>
<p>Your Dad to his credit went to great schools as did I. I would not put those schools under a heading of solid state schools. It is very competitive out there for jobs, the best firms or company’s (the ones that pay great salary and benefits) are only looking for the best candidates from the best schools. That is the reality of today.</p>
<p>First of all, thanks for your compliments Ray. Just a clarification: I was trying to say (badly!) that although my father’s position is great (we are milking the architect thing about as much as it can be!), he is at a lower rung in the ladder than his good friend who is one of the Principals and went to U of I (again, no podunk school–just not as prestigious as Princeton + Rice, both in general and for Architecture). And I do acknowledge–those kids at Rice who are interning at the firm my father workds for are having a nice opportunity presented to them. Of course, all Architects know that Rice has a strong program, but it is certainly conceivable that they get a little extra boost for having my father, a Rice alum, there.</p>
<p>yes. my parents were reading the korean newspaper & now there are korean parents taking classes for the SAT so they can help their kids study, lol.</p>
<p>Ray111: I guess I’m not convinced that the name of the school one attends has much to do with their professional success. The most detailed research study (Dale and Krueger) shows that it’s not the school one attends, but the personal characteristics they brought with them to college, that mattered most. In other words, if a student gets accepted to Harvard and Penn State, and he chooses Penn State, 20 years down the road that student will be just as successful professionally, because of his personal attributes (intelligence, motivation, character, etc.). Case after case after case bear this out.</p>
<p>My friend’s daughter was “Ivy League” caliber, but chose to go to a “no-name” state university because it was a better overall fit with what she was looking for in a college. She took full advantage of all the state school had to offer, and she was accepted into FIVE medical schools. Her success had little to do with where she went to college; it had much to do with the personal attributes she entered college with.</p>
<p>The exact same scenario held true for my friend’s son, who also attended a no-name state school, yet he was accepted into a top Ivy League law school.
That student was destined for success no matter where he got his undergraduate degree, because of his personal characteristics.</p>
<p>It has been said that it’s not WHAT the Ivy League schools are teaching; it’s
WHO they are teaching that results in the success of their graduates.</p>
<p>High school students should not be lead to believe that where they go attend college is going to determine their destiny.</p>
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<p>Depending on the kid, sometimes you just gotta stay involved. Otherwise things like this can happen:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=302505[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=302505</a></p>
<p>“Parents too involved”</p>
<p>I think most parents look around and the future for their kids scares the holy crap out of them. The middle is shrinking and down the road you’ll either have or you won’t, the inbetween will dissappear. So there is a perfectly natural fear parents have and thus alot of them are involved in an effort to get their kids into the right school and the “right” career. </p>
<p>Fear makes you do alot of things.</p>