“How does a 13 yr old girl have an 18 yr old boyfriend?”
I read a brief bit about this on my news feed yesterday. The family of the 18 yr. old thought she was 19. How, I don’t know, but that is their story.
@TV4caster said:
In Hank Azari’s documentary series “Fatherhood,” Kevin Bacon talks about following his son as he walks to school for the first time. Funny!
I walked alone to school in Jersey City NJ as a 6 year old. It was several city blocks, including crossing a few streets. My parents did practice walks with me and my Dad followed me the first day. After that, I was on my own. Never had a problem. I can’t imagine allowing a 6 year old to do that today. Different times.
Agree that we are in different times, but it is a combination of crazy drivers (who previously wouldn’t be wearing their seat belts and might be Darwined out before they hurt anyone) and population density as much as it is more awareness of weirdos walking our streets.
My grand uncle was blackballed because he hit and killed a child, completely not his fault from what I understand (she ran in front of his car from between two parked cars when he was going very slowly) and no charges filed. He was fired from his job and could not get a new job to the extent that they had to move across country. Now, it seems like NYC does not care about pedestrian fatalities, not even reporting them all. For example, if someone dies a few days after they were hit by a car (or a bus or a taxi or a garbage truck), they don’t even list it as a pedestrian fatality. Yet they want “VISION ZERO”? They don’t even count everything!
As for the 13 year old and the 18 year old, aren’t we blaming the victim? Or the victim’s parents? Or thinking that we should quash the poor girl’s freedom because she is 13? I was my full height and body shape at 13, why wouldn’t anyone think I was 18? Except that my mom did not let me wear makeup until age 17 that is.
One thing that makes me very nervous is the many cases of child prostitution and rape in England, where literally the handlers would look for girls in the park, talk to them very nicely and friendly, groom them to be their “girlfriends”, and then sell them to guys. There were serious racial overtones in the full story (although some were handler and victim in the same ethnic group, there was more outrage over picking “white girls” as victims when the handlers were not “white”), but the point was, these guys just literally went looking for young girls who were unaccompanied and were friendly to them. Girls as young as 10.
If you did not hear of that story, you can look it up. I keep close tabs on my children and they do not shrink from society. But I do shudder when I see a toddler about to fall off a slide, or walk away from the parent talking on the phone while at the playground. My kids have gone missing on occasion, not enough to call the cops, but enough to bring other people into the search. It is very frightening, and I do consider supervision, even very light supervision, a necessity.
We used to play at the park, but we also knew of guys who would pay kids a dollar or two to walk off with them behind the bushes. And we knew where these types of guys hung out, and stopped going to the park.
Note: In NO way am I condoning the 13/18 year old relationship. Even the most mature 13 year old is in an extremely vulnerable position to the 18 year old and it’s a situation ripe for exploitation. The 18 year old should have known better (unless there is some sort of cognitive impairment). My parents are 5 years apart but it’s an entirely different situation when you’re in your 20s (or older) than in your teens.
With that said, I could have passed for an 18 year old when I was 13. I was 5’8"-ish in 8th grade and was already “developed.” I remember going to malls and stuff with my younger cousins when I was in middle school and early high school and people thinking I was old enough to be their mother.
Often, in my experience, people base their age assumptions on height. For us tall folks, that means constantly being mistaken for much older (at least when we’re young).
“The family of the 18 yr. old thought she was 19. How, I don’t know, but that is their story.”
She does look older than 13 but how that justifies letting them run off like Bonnie and Clyde, I don’t know. I agree it would be slightly better if she was 18, but not much. And. it really does not sound like those particular parents were paying a whole lot of attention to their kid let regardless of who he was dating.
That theory excuses the 18 yr old, but what about the parents of the 13 yr old? And yes, I guess I am blaming parents who allow a 13 yr old to date an 18 yr old. As far as I read, he didn’t just meet her that take and take off with her. How do you not know how old the man your 13 yr old is hanging out with is? She’s borderline old enough to stay home on her one according to some of you, but old enough to date a man? No. I’m not blaming the “victim”. She’s a child who should have been protected and supervised.
Completely agree about the 13 year olds mom, as well. If her daughter was kidnapped that’s one thing but if she decided to run off with her criminal boyfriend then it’s a different problem that has probably been brewing for a while. In my opinion no one gets excused here. Although, there is a difference between free-range walking around town and a multi-state crime spree, too.
I grew up in a suburb of Seattle, which was about one &1/2 blocks from the elementary school where I attended 5th & 6thgd.
For much of the time, a man was parked on the corner, with his door open so we could see his junk.( it was a power line dirt road rather than a numbered street)
I wasn’t bothered other than that, but a friend who lived opposite that corner, killed himself when he was 12 or so, and later I wondered if it would have been connected. I may have said something to my parents, but as parents didn’t really get together like they do now for school events.
My kids schools were always having open houses, parent group and parent teacher events, as well as performances, et. al. Even the public schools have tours for families who are considering or who will be new to the school, can you imagine them doing that in 1967?
Virtually all the parents in that suburb were working at least part time, if they didn’t have young children at home.
I don’t have a good idea of how expensive it was then. The lots were large, but not large enough for horses, ( those homes were five blocks away)but it also was the beginning of the feminist movement, and I think many women were bored and lonely at home. Moms seemed to go back to work when their youngest was in 2nd or 3rd gd.
Many kids were latchkey kids, and some were even instructed to start dinner. My brother actually got quite good at it.
One thing that was different, from suburban life in the '70’s & 60’s, was while my closest friend in high school lived right next door to the campus, ( they shared a fence), and I don’t remember anyone else wanting to come to her house during lunch or after school, let alone causing problems.
But when my daughter attended an inner city high school and had several friends who lived just a couple blocks away, their parents were adamant that this not be disclosed, because they were concerned about students wanting to cause trouble. So as far as I know, my daughter and her friends * never* went to their homes for lunch or immediately after school. ( their schedules didn’t permit it generally anyway, as they all had sport practice or jobs).
I agree kids shouldn’t be crossing busy streets, and since many of our parks have unsavory goings on if you know what to look for, I wouldn’t let any kid under 12 go unaccompanied.
On the 13 and 18 year olds dating – I remember taking an education class once where this came up. It was several years ago, so this is based on an old memory. I remember the professor telling us that it is more common than you would think for for older men – 18+ – to date young girls, and that many young girls want to date older guys. (The professor wasn’t defending or condoning this situation, just informing us of it).
There’s no question of the parents “giving permission” – this is done behind the parents’ back.
The guy says the girl lied about her age and by the time he found out she was 13 he was in love. They dated for 3 months. She bought cigarettes so according to his parents they had no reason not to think she was older. She also reportedly lied about being pregnant. Oh, and they have been caught and she is in the custody of CPS and he is in jail.
“Behind the parents back”.
Just like people cheat on their spouses:
- I’m going out with the girls.
- I’ll be over Susie’s house
- I want to go to the mall and meet my friends
Without knowing the details, I cannot understand anyone with a child under 18 who lets them have free reign of the internet. Or the phone.
As for “young girls wanting to date older guys”, a friend of mine went out with a girl two years younger in HS. What would be expected happened fairly quickly (even in her house with her parents in another room, and the father did have a shotgun…), but the relationship didn’t continue past a few months because she started carrying around copies of “Brides” and similar magazines. Kissing and way beyond meant something far different to her than him. He’s very lucky he wasn’t a father at 16 (do the math on how old she was).
Just because kids think they want something doesn’t mean it is a good idea.
And I can bet that there are 18 year old guys who can pass for 15, “close enough” plus remember kids get held back by their parents or by the schools. There are 17 year olds and 19 year olds graduating HS.
Dating for three months? At thirteen? Sure my 17 yr old could have gone behind my back and dated someone older but where did the mother think her 13 yr old was? Not sure I believe his story either. Didn’t he know where she went to school? He’s in love and ready to marry her but doesn’t know what grade she’s in? Where does a 13 yr old even meet an 18 yr old?
Today’s recap and update of the original story from the Washington Post.
Montgomery County neglect inquiry shines spotlight on ‘free-range’ parenting
http://wapo.st/1wj1xhd
One of the interesting tidbits from this article is that this is the family’s second run-in with CPS.
My thought is that after the first incident, one would be careful about the legalities of their parenting choices. Maybe that would have been the time to discuss their parenting beliefs with CPS or an attorney. I don’t think they are in the wrong. But the fear of having CPS swoop in and take my kids away would cause me to make some modifications to my decisions.
Where does a 13 yr old even meet an 18 yr old?
My sister was older than 13, but she met a much older man in the youth group of the Mormon church.
She married him less than a yr, after she graduated from high school. He was closer to my mothers age, than sisters.
The photos of the two teenagers indicate that they would easily have been mistaken for two 17 or 18 year olds.
I’m really not for girls under 18 wearing makeup, in case you can’t tell. Pretty Baby and Taxi Driver alarmed me quite a bit. And that Blame It On Rio movie (girl who was the focus of the movie was 17 at the time, and needed parental permission for nude scenes). With Michael Caine, who was 51 at the time. It was a creepy time to be growing up female.
Go ahead and free range parent, either within your gated community or in Big Sky country where your nearest neighbor is far away. I don’t think it is wise anywhere with traffic and frequent public access.
And my “normal childhood” of unsupervised children both inside and outside houses included incidents of child abuse by other children (thankfully I was not a victim but I witnessed sexual abuse and managed to get out of the situation and never go back - what you did before people realized if you don’t report it, it will likely continue) and knowing of parents walking around naked in front of their children and others. I don’t think I want my children to have that kind of normal childhood.
Also, at our public library, my oldest son told me that he and other children had reported patrons looking at porn on library computers, and the librarian told them to stay in the children’s section, which does not have internet access, but otherwise such behavior was permitted under free speech. So my kids can’t even go to a public library to use the internet without people using the computers for unsavory purposes.
Back when, magazines with the exact same or even tamer material were banned from most public libraries.
It does seem these people are militant about it.
But think about the reverse. If you see two children, ages 6 and 10, in the park alone, and then walking away from a park alone, would you be concerned? Would you think “oh, their parents let them go to the park alone” or “my goodness, they are leaving the park, their parent must still be here somewhere!”? I have been asked to help a child on the slide, by the child himself or herself. In those cases, I will offer to stand behind the child near the slide so I could catch them if they fall off the ladder, but in no case would I actually touch them and help them climb the ladder.
(does anyone wonder if these children are in danger because their photos are splashed around and it is known their parents let them go around the streets by themselves?)
rhandco - what an interesting point. I would not have thought about the risks associated with allowing their photos to be printed and televised clips as well. Yes - bad idea.
She was tested and doesn’t have Aspergers.
I do agree she’s an extreme introvert who can easily go days without any social contact and be happy with her lonesome self at home if allowed to get away with it by school authorities, HS friends, and parents. Parents are mainly concerned that considering she’s going to be graduating in a few months, she won’t be prepared to navigate, deal, and seek out social situations on her own initiative in college and work without much parental and friend prodding or school/work obligations forcing the issue.
In many urban areas of NYC during the crime-ridden era of the late '60s-'80s, there was a mix of parents not having the time and the idea that it’s better for kids to start learning how to get themselves to/from school or to organize activities themselves without being overly dependent on adults.
Also, considering many immigrant parents of the time…including my own emigrated from countries during periods of outright wars and marauding armies/soldiers violently attacking and/or killing anyone they was “bad”, the crime-ridden environment of NYC wasn’t as bad in comparison from their perspective.
My parents would have had a serious problem doing that to me even at 17…especially considering I had already graduated HS and was off attending college away from home which they weren’t paying for anyways.
Also, IME…most teens and young adults…especially those who have demonstrated maturity and capability for independence would react very negatively to such micromanaging.
In our eyes, that’s a sign of a parent who not only cannot let go, but is clearly communicating lack of trust and faith in the young adult’s capabilities.
Unless said teen/young adult has clearly demonstrated a longstanding pattern of irresponsibility from reasonably recent past history(no bringing up what he/she did at 2, 5, or even 13), that’s IMO is doing serious injustice to those who have demonstrated maturity and capability for independence along with potentially undermining their drive to increase those positive traits.
I saw the mother and the children interviewed on Today Show. I understand the mother’s point of view however I am with one of the above posters in terms of the 10 year old supervising the 6 year old. What would his decision making be if there had been a playground accident involving his sibling or if he himself was injured. What if he was distracted and she wandered away? That seems an awful lot of responsibility for a 10 year old, no matter how good his judgement.
Children do get abducted… if you can recall the young Orthodox boy whose parents decided it was okay for him to walk home from day camp by himself and was picked up by a deranged man.
Back in the news, a neighbor just reported the children walking alone 1/3 of a mile from home:
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28783266/free-range-kids
"Danielle Meitiv tells FOX 5 she had told her kids to be home by 6:30 p.m., and when they weren’t, she and her husband became frantic and started driving around looking for them.
The Meitivs say CPS didn’t call them to let them know they had the kids until about 8 p.m. The Meitivs drove to CPS to pick up their kids, but say they were told to “take a seat” and initially weren’t given any information about their children, except that they were there.
Just after 10:30 p.m., the Meitivs were reunited with their kids. They had to sign a temporary safety plan to take them home, which means they are not allowed to leave the children unattended at all.
The Meitivs’ 10-year-old son told reporters they sat in the police car for about two hours before they were told they would be dropped off at home, but instead, they went to CPS in Rockville."