Parentspeak - should we speak to children as equals?

My dad’s mom has not been in my life. At all.

The first time I remember meeting her was at a funeral when I was about 6. She spoke to me like I should know her and proceeded to hug me and try to kiss me on the cheek.

I screamed. I didn’t like being touched as it was as a kid and now this strange woman was trying to grab me?!?

I don’t remember what happened after that but my parents said she was angry and they told her that she was a stranger to me.

I don’t know if it’s because of that incident but it has ALWAYS creeped me out that some parents make their kids hug and kiss whether they want to or not. My parents have an essentially adopted grandchild and we’ve asked him for permission for hugs and kisses since he could communicate (which includes before he could talk). I don’t know if my parents did this with me but that’s always the way I remember them doing things with other kids.

My mom said my grandfather never approached children. At first she thought he was stand offish but he simply said that “they’ll come to me when they are ready.” (and of course we did!). He was so great.

“Be careful” and “behave yourself!” are really shortcuts for a whole lot of speeches that have already been made a million times prior.

I don’t think most parents use parentspeak all the time. It would not be good parenting to constantly bark orders at kids with no explanation. And most kids would not stand for that. OTOH, it is equally silly to have to explain every single time that we say thank you when we leave a play date. If you are walking out the door and the kid has not remembered, reminding them to Thank Mrs. So and so does not seem demeaning to me. My kids would not come home and have written a note if they forgot.

Of course it is important to explain why we require certain things. But after a few explanations kids understand that they may get cold if they don’t wear their coat in the winter but at the moment, still don’t want to. They may be hot in the house, not in the mood for school, in the middle of a game, or just feeling uncooperative. At times, it is necessary for a kid to simply comply. Running out the door to get a kid to school or daycare so you can get to your job is the time to require them to put on their coat and grab their backpack and lunch. Since this is required every day, not sure the need to explain that if they don’t do this, everyone will be late, including mommy who has an important meeting so cooperation is critical. That doesn’t mean we don’t give choices (if you don’t want to put on your coat, you can carry it or do you want an apple or orange in your lunch) and try to avoid barking orders.

That being said, it is important to look at how we talk to our kids and make sure we haven’t fallen into a pattern of excessive orders. Explanations as to why we need a coat or why we say thank you are very important. Kids should never be forced to kiss or hug someone when they don’t want to.

If my kid didn’t want to wear a coat, I just brought it with us. When he got cold we put on the coat. It was a constant struggle at school where teachers and playground monitors were so convinced my kids needed to be bundled up. Actually they didn’t. They didn’t get cold.

I leaned toward the more explaining end of things, but I was also grateful that my babysitter was more of a rules oriented person and just laid down the law about please and thank you!

Oh heck, I’ve done it all, said it all. but, I’ve never made them fake kiss anyone, or begged for one. I’ve asked for one! My mom and dad used to get mad because they wouldn’t run up to hug and kiss them. Well…you weren’t around much.

To some extent, it depends on the kid.

My Kid #1 didn’t understand things that I thought would come naturally, and could figure out the loopholes in every parental directive. He needed LOTS of explaining.

I remember having to explain to him “If you know the right answer to a question on a school paper, that’s the answer you should put there.” He truly didn’t know that. He was putting down arbitrary answers for the heck of it because he didn’t know that he wasn’t supposed to.

But at the same time, he could see the weaknesses in anything. One day, when he was about 4, we were in the supermarket, and another mom threatened to leave her child in the store if she didn’t stop dawdling. He turned to me, and in a voice dripping with sarcasm, said, “She’s not going to do that.” You don’t bluff a kid like that.

And one day at about the same time, he misbehaved while I was dressing his baby sister for a doctor’s appointment. I told him to stop what he was doing, and he said, “You can’t do anything about it. If you put me in time out, we’ll be late for the doctor.” He was right, of course. That was the end of my experiment with time out. A new order that involved taking away privileges (like TV) began that very day.

None of the above ever happened with Kid #2, who was a much more typical specimen.

My youngest didn’t like being condescended to. We were being interviewed for a preschool program and the program director asked if she could take a photo of him. He said “no”. He threw a lego block at her. I felt pretty much the same way. Needless to say, he went to preschool elsewhere.

I would bring the coat too. But I had a harder time leaving the coat behind on a cold day and thinking they would just get cold and learn their lesson. It didn’t always seem to work that way. The use of natural consequences seemed great in theory, but sometimes difficult in practice (or the consequence seemed too harsh for the transgression).

When my kids were little (under 5), I was quite directive with them.

“You are to eat the food that’s on your plate. No dessert until you are done with your food.” Never forced them to finish their food, but there was no cooking different food for them or giving them snacks later either.
“You are to put on a coat and shoes when you go out.” No coat, no going out, but they could decide on which coat to wear or shoes to wear.
I offered options when there were options, but there weren’t options all the time.
My kids always knew the box they were operating in. As long as they didn’t get outside of the box, we didn’t have any problem. Size of the box got bigger over time and I always talked about size of the box way before it was to be changed. As an example, we told them before high school that they were not allowed to date until 15. We also told them they couldn’t ride with their friends, but we also made ourselves available to drive them every where until they were able to drive.
Once they were passed 5 (or when they could understand reasoning), we told them why we have those rules. Sometimes they agreed and sometimes they didn’t. As parents, we were the boss. My kids always knew we had their best interest at heart. We rarely had arguments with our kids at home. I think it was because they knew what was expected of them.

I always felt children knew whether they were cold (or should learn.) Never insisted on the coat, but, yes, lots of carrying for later.

The hardest part about natural consequences for me was, (still is) if someone else in the equation would be impacted or inconvenienced by the consequence…like curtailing plans with someone expecting us/depending on us. DD cared most about outings with friends or being part of some group extracurricular. She would not have cared much about losing any other priviledge or thing…but I didn’t want to impact other people. I had a friend who constantly cancelled plans for her girls to do outings with mine as punishment when hers weren’t compliant with something or another. Got to the point I just never told daughter in advance if we had plans with them, she got so disappointed. Had to tell my friend that what she was doing was also a punishment for my daughter, so please not to announce plans openly to the girls. Turns out, it was a super-strict, controlling and paranoid father at the bottom of it, but that’s another (sad) story, ending up with many hospitalizations for anorexia, for those girls. (Fortunately, friend and daughters were eventually able to separate from dad and are now living in mom’s country of origen and doing better.)

There is probably a strong correlation between people being very directive and controlling with their kids, and people micromanaging at work, and being very directive and judgemental in other aspects of their lives - having strong opinions about what other people “should” be doing, instead of live and let live.

I got a strange look once in the grocery store.
DD: “whine and complaining about something or other”
me: “Why did all these other people not come here?”
DD: “To hear me whine”

Because we had had the discussion before about everybody else not coming places to hear my kids whine.

After my kids got stung on the feet a few times by bees hovering near the lawn (which had some clover in it because we didn’t want to use pesticides while they were very young), we instituted a household rule that no one could go outdoors without shoes.

The next day, my son pulled me to the window and pointed to a transgression being committed outside. In his words, “Squirrel outside without shoes!” It took some doing to explain that the rule didn’t apply to animals.

I always find articles like this interesting, whether it is those who claim parents are too much dictators, or those who decry parents who ‘coddle their kids’ or ‘explain to them’, when they are parents and of course are dictators…and like many things, it is all about context. If a kid is sticking a knife in a light socket, you don’t reason with them, you grab them and tell them no (probably forcefully, given you are probably freaking out). For us we gave our son as much freedom as we could given his age, and when we restricted things we did try to explain why, but there were times when it did come down to “we said no, and that should be good enough”. If a three year old is having a temper tantrum, you can’t play power games with them or necessarily reason with them, it won’t work more times than not.

On the other hand the dictatorial parent whose response to everything is “because I said so” is playing a power trip, probably because their parent played the same game with them, and that doesn’t work either, among other things, kids never learn about consequences, they never learn to accept that their decisions may not work the way they think, and they are going to take their falls and you can’t take them for them. The dictatorial style is based on ‘parent knows best’, and the problem with that is it doesn’t let the kid find out what works best for them, their whole life is based around what the parent perceives the truth to be, best choice, etc.

In answer to the original question, I think we should treat the kid as equals, but in a ratio to the age and development of a kid, parents are more equal (to paraphrase George Orwell in “Animal Farm”) :slight_smile:

We probably can all think back to at least an occasional use of “because I said so”, even if we just thought it and didn’t say it!. there are times when the reality is the kid has to comply because the parent needs them to and not for any explainable, logical reason. Or, as someone else said, the consequence of continuing to reason with that particular kid will adversely impact the compliant kid (kid 1 refuses to get in the car to go to a party that kid 2 is going to; nobody around to leave kid 1 with, kid 1 has to get in car or kid 2 misses party). While you may try reasoning with kid 1 that sibling will miss party, if kid 1 continues to argue or not want to go, probably need to force them to ride in the car, but not to go to the party (although in my experience most kids will decide to enjoy the party once they are there).

@mom2and:
Exactly, as they say, it depends lol.

Some children I love are disproving the idea that “please” and “thank you” will become habits through imitation alone, without parental direction/requirement.

Maybe it worked with your kid…

We talked in full age appropriate sentences to the kids, and we said what we meant. We were the parents, they were the kids. Seemed simple at the time. Of course it is all age appropriate…how you talk to a 4 year old is quite different than how you talk to a 14 year old. There may be no need for an explanation to a 4 year old and a 14 year old might benefit from that additional understanding. Learning respect for authority is necessary in life. Being home on time for dinner, not violating curfews, telling someone where you are and when you’ll be home don’t need an explanation and don’t require one…those are the tules. Please and thank you don’t require a lengthy explanation…just drummed into heads until it’s habit. And social manners are important…those sometimes need explanation (don’t put your elbows on the table, stand up and say hello and perhaps shake hands when an adult arrives might benefit from explanation). I like the posts that refer to structure and order…that is something that is healthy to learn…appropriate bed times, eating regularly, making time to study vs. fun time. Other things you let go as they age…I wouldn’t let my kids head for school in shorts when it was below freezing in elementary school - that is grounds for “no don’t argue with me.” But if a 16 year old puts shorts on to head out the door when it’s 20 degrees…I’d just roll my eyeballs and say “are you crazy?” and generally they would reply “yup.”

Fortunately none of mine were prone to temper tantrums or back-talk when they were little I don’t know what I would have done if I had one that threw themselves on the floor and threw a fit, so in that respect I got lucky. They all back-talked once when they were youngish, and learned the consequences and it never happened again.

I also think it’s good to give choices. It helps kids learn to make decisions. There’s nothing more annoying than someone who can’t make a decision. Love is not always being indulgent and a loving environment doesn’t mean everyone is happy 100% of the time I guess I believe.

We talked a lot, about various issues of importance. Usually, this was as they got older and more independent, those related to their true personal decision making. The biggies were alcohol, sex, drugs, and of course, schoolwork, ethics and empathy, giving, respect, the value of working hard, etc. Values. Or, when it’s important to stand up for your beliefs, maybe protest, and when it’s equally important to make the decision to go with the flow, for the team.

“…times when the reality is the kid has to comply.” I believe part of raising them well is to help them understand how we all need to comply or, sometimes, conform. Imagine if our adult decisions were all about what we wanted or wanted to refuse, and everyone had to go around explaining. All that is far from ogre or terrorizing them.

When they were little, the framework was different. Yes, we set bedtime and yes, we were often flexible. No, they couldn’t play in traffic or be mean.

And yes, we taught them to say thank you. It wasn’t negotiable. But it was taught lovingly.

I insisted on dinner together - it was really the only “old school” thing I did…we sat down, we ate. Even when they were teenagers. No hats. No phones. They all learned to cook and we took turns making dinner as they got older and sometimes a friend or two of theirs would sit and eat with us instead of making a fast food run. We seemed to always have enough to go around. I really miss our family conversation about all things big and small…I really do miss it. I’d take in some stray kids just for dinners if I could :slight_smile:

I kind of wish I had not entered this thread. It probably was not a good time for me to do so. I’m in a bit of a shaky point in my life this week, dealing with a death, which makes it more difficult for me to be objective about how my posts are being taken or if other posts are about mine or are general responses to the topic, or responses to someone else. It’s hard in a forum, too, to know if someone’s tone is meant to be sincere, helpful, matter-of-fact or snarky. Right now, it’s even It’s hard for me to figure out if I’m just being part of the debate in an OK way or if I’m being irrationally defensive.

So, not being at all sure about any of this right now, (and with all apologies if I’ve missed the mark) I will say this: I grew up in the deep South (though lived most of my adult life out of it.). Accordingly, I grew up in an environment where Ma’am and Sir, and Please, and Thank You were not negotiable. And despite the shortcomings of that time and place, my parents also instilled a genuine, sincere regard for all types and races and economic classes of people and I don’t really know how they grew to be this way, in the Mississippi and South Alabama rural poor upbringings that they had. Having said all this, these values are a part of me. I may have relaxed the Sir and Ma’am etiquette with my daughter, but make no mistake, I brought her up to know manners, to know kindness, to know not to be disruptive. Were she ever to be disruptive I would whisk her out of any restaurant, any movie or concert faster than you can say “Jack Rabbit.”

I feel my words in this post have been taken further than I meant. Maybe my wording was wrong. But I meant to convey a general style of relating with my easy-tempered, very verbal child that worked for us. I acknowledged it wouldn’t work for all temperaments, all the time. Of course, each and every time we went to the library I didn’t explain why we had to be quiet ad nauseam. Of course, I didn’t do all the explaining in a pedantic way. Of course, there were hurried times when a directive was made, or when no explanation was necessary. And while I didn’t force coats and multiple layers of clothes on each time we went out in winter as I saw so many parents do, she hardly wore shorts in the snow, either, unless it was a two-minute foray to stick her bare foot into it off the front steps to see how it felt. What I was describing, though, was a style of parenting that did seem different from what I tended to see around me in my particular community: lots of cliche’d directives repeated over and over by frustrated parents that didn’t seem to be connecting with the child, but then little follow-though or ineffective follow-through. Maybe the fact that I was twenty years older than the average mom had something to do with it.

Maybe it’s just the mood I’m in but I feel some may have taken my words and made a bit of a caricature of them. Maybe you don’t mean _ me_ at all but the article; or another poster; or what you see in your community of over-the-top, permissive parenting. But you don’t really know me or my daughter. She’s not perfect by any means but if there is anything she is, she’s a polite and civilized, and well-modulated fourteen, in general company at least ( shows her teen moods mostly in the privacy of home.) There are many ways to Rome, many good ways to parent and to become a well-adjusted individual. I just entered the discussion to share the way that flowed naturally from my personality, that worked well for us. Perhaps, my written words about it are coming out too saccharine and “precious,” that I am selectively remembering the sweetness and successes because my own mother died last week and I need happy thoughts. I know none of you knew that, so no need to cater to me. But please understand my words in that context now, and please don’t judge and laugh about (if, in fact, you ever did) how you think I reared my daughter.