A refugee tells what the refugee vetting process is like:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/18/9756590/refugee-process-us
This is, but one example. There are several more re refugee programs.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/terrorists-refugee-program-settle-us/story?id=35252500
Personally, I do not see the need to rush any program and a need to carefully review and monitor, with independent oversight, to ensure that these types of errors are stop-gapped and caught before anyone is released among the American people.
If we want to be the exceptional country that we believe we are, we will welcome Syrian refugees that have fulfilled the requirements for admission to the US, even if there is some small risk. This requires some national resolve.
If we stop accepting Syrian refugees, we are diminished as a nation. We are saying that a very small band of French and Belgian terrorists can change our foreign policy. And in my opinion, at least, we fail to honor those who lost their lives in Paris, because the people who perpetrated those horrible acts succeed in causing the disruption they desire.
There is a good article about the apparent lead planner. [url=<a href=“http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3324589/Even-family-wanted-dead-Privately-educated-Spoilt-parents-nightclub-loving-playboy-spurned-spread-hatred-slaughter.html%5DHere%5B/url”>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3324589/Even-family-wanted-dead-Privately-educated-Spoilt-parents-nightclub-loving-playboy-spurned-spread-hatred-slaughter.html]Here[/url]. This article again makes clear what I think people like to glide over so they can blame poverty, war somewhere, etc. for the choices people make to become mass murderers.
In other words, the planner was an entitled kid from a fairly well off family that was, as again is almost always the case, a fairly non-religious family. The kid drank and smoked dope and got into trouble so he was sent to an expensive private school. This is what we should expect: the planners/leaders tend to come from better-off, less religious backgrounds and they become extremely devout and turn to violence. The other group tend to be like the ones who attacked the Jewish market in Paris earlier this year: thugs into robbery, drinking, drugs and drug dealing who suddenly become religious and turn to violence. I think both are related to a sort of messianic complex of the “convert”: “we’ve done wrong before and that has illuminated what we should do” and they act with the zeal of a convert.
Remember Bin Laden came from a wealthy, not particularly religious family. The elder Tsarnaev in Boston drank and sold drugs - and it seems killed his drug dealing partners - and the younger smoke dope and then the elder became religious and turned to violence. Major Nidal Hassan, who killed so many at Fort Hood, was the son of restaurant owners who graduated from Virginia Tech. He became much more devout but I’d say his story is apparently more a psychiatric case - perhaps motivated by his years in the military versus his growing religious feelings. There are a few exceptions but in Europe, most of the violence has been committed by thugs, meaning gangsters who drink and do drugs and commit violent crimes and then become devout, who are led by solidly middle and wealthier people who shift from a relatively dissolute or what we’d call a “troubled” teen into violently devout life.
So when we hear about the effect of whatever, it’s important to realize the evidence suggests it isn’t those people actually exposed to genuine violence but those whose lives only find meaning in religiously motivated violence.
Best not to project your own racial thoughts onto other people.
No one is saying anything about giving “every dark-skinned young man… the stink eye” - you made that racial crap up. What I am talking about exclusively is ensuring, as best as possible, that terrorists (dark-skinned, light-skinned, and white and other) are not admitted to this country.
No need to introduce your racial prejudicial thoughts into the thread because, unlike you, I do not assume Islamic terrorists are “dark-skinned young” men. Why do I not assume that? Because they are not, unless that fact has missed you. A very short primer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/06/us-usa-jihadjane-idUSBREA050PC20140106#4v7ClWIbbQlPVxcm.97
Islamic terrorists come in many forms. We forget that at our own peril.
That thug Abaaoud, the planner for the Paris attack, didn’t become extremely devout and then turn to violence. He was already violent. He got radicalized while he was serving a sentence for armed robbery, after a criminal youth. Looks to me like his claimed devoutness is just a gossamer thin veneer imperfectly hiding his desire to kill people in horrible ways.
I hope he turns out to be the pile of goo in the apartment the police raided.
@TatinG Do you just specialize in bad information? Two of the hijackers visas were approved for flight training, but the application date and the approval dates were before 9/11. The notifications were sent out in error by a subcontractor working on the backlog surrounding 9/11, not the INS.
I think the point that was being made is the point you just mentioned.
The government, itself, or subcontractors really are tough to trust to get whatever it is doing correct. It was an error, either by government or an entity contracted by government. Not sure anything has changed in that regard re error-prone.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ins-shuffle-in-wake-of-visa-flap/
4 INS people were ‘reassigned’.
Just listened to a disturbing podcast about Daesh and what it wants. Did you know that a popular Saudi cleric, Mohamed Al-arifi, has 13 million twitter followers, (more than twice Pope Francis) and his ideals are not far from those of ISIL? And that more British citizens have joined ISIL than have signed up for the UK military? The author thinks we are kidding ourselves if we think that reason, happiness, and good social services are any type of cure for this problem.
There are about 150,000 active soldiers in the British military. Are you telling me there are more than 150,000 British members of ISIL?
A very thoughtful column in the Times of Israel on long-term strategy regarding Daesh, by a good friend of mine who was a senior national security official in the UK, and taught War Studies at Sandhurst:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/acts-of-war-destroy-daesh-with-an-eye-to-the-future/
Unlike many other writers, she actually responds to people in the comments, which are worth reading as well.
Thanks, @DonnaL. That is a fascinating and very thoughtfully written article; rather sobering and not very upbeat but realistic.
@awnct : I was actually speaking about the way French people think, since the topic was French prejudice.
@DonnaL : thank you.
This is true for many, many of these so-called terrorist. It’s so ironic how they preach “Islam” yet the majority don’t even pray, fast, or give alms (3 of the 5 obligatory pillars of Islam). They prefer to kill, rape and loot instead. @greenwitch I am actually familiar with Arifi. I actually saw him give a sermon live once and he didn’t seem radical to me. But to be fair, he was talking about how you should treat your neighbors and relatives, so there wasn’t much room to be “radical”. I’ll go check his twitter feed though; you can never be too careful.
They just reported that Abaooud is dead, one of those killed in the raid. Good riddance.
Schengan Treaty open borders isn’t the only practice that’s under review now. Was listening on CNN to US congressmen on both sides of the aisle question the visa-waiver that Western Europeans use to enter the US.
^To be fair, all boys and men age 16 to 59 have a special step in the visa waiver program.
“A face and a name for the victims of the Paris attacks”
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/terrorisme/attaques-du-13-novembre-a-paris/a-face-and-a-name-for-the-paris-attacks-victims_1179985.html
Regarding post 490, Cardinal Fang: that there are more British Muslims with ISIS than in the British army is the claim, not more than the total number of British soldiers. The claim appears to be true; there are about 560 declared Muslims in the British Army and guesses are more than that with ISIS but there may be Muslims in the religiously “undeclared” number in the Army. But as to declared or confirmed Muslims, yes more have joined ISIS than the British Army. And that does speak volumes.
Note the woman who blew herself up as the cops closed in was also a known partier who drank and didn’t even wear a headscarf until less than a year ago. Like I said, they take on the zeal of converts who find meaning in rejection of the “Western” ways they grew up with. That’s very dangerous to the West.
For years I travelled on a foreign passport but didn’t speak my native language because I entered the US at the age of 2.