The French police already knew about every single one of the Paris killers. These guys were already on their radar. I just saw an interview with a French counterterrorism expert, who said that the failure was not in identifying those slimemolds, but in following them once they were identified- an “absolute failure.” The watch list has about 10,000 names on it, which is big, but not as big as the number of all Muslims in France and Belgium.
There is a bill sponsored by Feinstein to require a visa for EU passport holders who have been to Syria or Iraq within the last 5 years. Eminently sensible.
Apparently these terrorists have been between Syria and Europe several times.
@TatinG, although that is bound to complicate things for some innocent people, such as aid workers and journalists, it does seem sensible. Not sure that it goes far enough, actually, in terms of countries.The 9/11 killers were mostly Saudis.
I think that the EU nations should revoke the passport of anyone proven to have fought for ISIS. Don’t let them back into the country.
Consolation, does the EU intentionally let ISIS thugs back into the EU? Certainly ISIS thugs are in the EU, but I thought that was because Turkey’s border control is non-existent right now, and it’s easy to get to Greece.
I’m not sure, but having read that the “mastermind” of the Paris terrorists had been to Syria to fight for ISIS and been allowed back into Belgium, it appears that they did know. IMHO, if they find out someone was fighting for ISIS, they should deport them and cancel their passport. An appeals process should be sufficient to take care of people who went there, realized how misguided they were, and genuinely repented. They could be offered the opportunity to join an anti-ISIS fighting force for a couple of years to earn their way back.
^^^ I guess I can’t believe that a country would let a known ISIS fighter back in their borders.
If they knew who Abaaoud was when he came into Belgium, they shouldn’t have deported him. They should have arrested him! He was a wanted man who was believed to have planned several terrorist attacks including the train shooting. I believe the authorities didn’t check, or the Belgian authorities didn’t have access to the French info.
The European countries don’t seem to be sharing information in the optimal way.
But yes, I’d say joining ISIL should be equivalent to renouncing your European or American citizenship.
Why does this remind me of Kim Davis?
That may not be very practical to do, if the person in question does not have any other citizenship or nationality (i.e. would become stateless, so there is no place to deport to). Also, countries’ citizenship and nationality laws vary, and may not include provisions for loss of citizenship or nationality except in circumstances specifically relating to acquisition of citizenship or nationality. In many countries, even heinous terrorists who are citizens of the country retain their citizenship (e.g. McVeigh).
Of course, a country could just make it ordinarily illegal to fight for Daesh, then arrest, prosecute, and (if found guilty) punish someone who does so and returns to the country.
According to what I have read recently, the Belgian police/government agencies are perhaps excessively complex in organization and do not communicate effectively, partially due to the Fleming/Walloon split. As a result, they can be very ineffective.
Sensible? How would u even begin to enforce this? The immigration officer in the US passport-control booth is supposed to read every single entry stamp on every single page of someone’s passport? It’s not like a convenient list of previously entered countries pops up when your passport gets scanned.
Plus, it’s easy to “lose” a passport and get a replacement one. I know lots of frequent travelers w 2 pasports from the same country. One passort to use while the other passport is sitting in some consular inbox awaitng a visa for a separate trip. Or one passport for Israeli entry stamps and another passport for entering muslim countries that are hissy about Isrseli entry stamps.
Because of legal protections, it’s been nearly impossible in Britain, which I know more about, to deport even people who openly preach violence. First, they are entitled to significant hearings and, second, there has to be a place that will take them - by various laws - and no place will. And laws that limit keeping people in prison mean that these people end up, at some point, out in the world though one hopes under closer observation.
On the general subject, I hope this guy is wrong: Syrian-American community leader in NYC says ISIS is already in the US because identity documents have been easy to obtain in Syria for years. [url=<a href=“http://nypost.com/2015/11/19/syrian-community-leader-isis-is-already-in-new-york-city/%5DHere.%5B/url”>http://nypost.com/2015/11/19/syrian-community-leader-isis-is-already-in-new-york-city/]Here.[/url]
That’s we shouldn’t be overly worrying about refugees. There are lots of easier ways to get into the US for nefarious purposes. Why would a terrorist choose a way that is chancy and takes two or three years, when they could just get in on a tourist visa with fake documents?
I wouldn’t necessarily put a whole lot of stock in a guy in Bay Ridge, who’s been in the USA for 47 years, who tells the New York Post (that paragon of credibility) that he “believes” this is the case. It’s not like the Post seems to have made even the slightest effort to fact-check any of his claims.
I don’t worry that any of the screened Syrians entering the US are presently terrorists. I’m more worried that if there isn’t adequate facilitation of their integration into US society that they’ll later get imbittered and radicalized, like the Tsarnaev brothers.
Right now, ISIS doesn’t need Syrian identity documents to enter the US thru the backdoor as a refugee. The Paris bombers were French & Belgian nationals, weren’t they? They could have just walked thru the US front door as tourists, using their French & Belgian passports,and stayed legally for 90 days at a time.
Visa Waiver countries
http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html
They could enter with student visas as well, or many othe ways. How do you keep people from becoming embittered and acting out violently?
Some of the 9/11 terrorists were on student visas.
There are lots of people on students visas–some current and others expired. The vast majority of these folks are real students, trying to get an education. Are there bad actors among them? Of course.
Student or tourist visas are much surer ways to enter a country than trying to get in as a refuge, IMHO. ISIS has an income of $40 million/month from oil, from what I’ve read. Money isn’t a problem for them.
The new normal…
Islamist gunmen storm the Radisson Hotel in the capital in Mali. 3 dead and 170 hostages (140 guests + 30 staff).
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/world/africa/mali-hotel-attack-radisson.html?referer=
Here is one view on my big question right now: Who is buying ISIS oil?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/most-important-question-about-isis-nobody-asking