Paris deaths

Understatement.

France is essentially a disarmed country for civilians. Even many policemen are not allowed to carry guns. So much for strict gun control in saving them from getting killed by guns.

What is sad is the people at the concert had to stand there and watch the killers shoot them and reload for like 20 minutes. People had time to call friends and say that killers were shooting them like fish in a barrel and not one person could defend himself. Not even the security guards could help. Very sad.

Not limited to terrorists - any criminal can get a gun regardless of any law on the books.

The world seems forever vulnerable in the face of these soft target attacks. The sadness is profound.

So they should have let people carry a weapon into a crowded death metal concert? Even if they didn’t have strict gun control, that wouldn’t be allowed.

A friend and her husband are in Paris right now. They are safe.

Please don’t this thread into another gun-control debate.

Thoughts and prayers with all CC connections in Paris as well as everyone touched by the actions of these madmen. I live in a major metro area which is an obvious target. I wonder if I will be able to go to a sporting event at a stadium without some nagging worry, wonder if I know my DH is traveling on a commuter railroad without having some nagging worry…I know we will be counseled to live our lives and move on. What world are my children going to live in?

^^same here. I got a pix of my nephew and his wife dining at Eiffel tower earlier today. Thankfully they face booked that they are safely in their hotel.

This just happened as well, in Beirut. At least 41 dead. Probably the same people responsible, basically: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34805466

It becomes “no words” to describe the feelings. We were in Paris this summer. I have FB’d some family members who live in France, but mostly not in Paris - hoping they weren’t there for any reason. Hope to hear from them by morning (with the time difference).

I am horrified. I love Paris and my D just finished a semester in France, but in the south of France. Targets just seem so random, cannot even process it.

impossible to stop it all…

the bad guys only have to be successful once to cause huge amounts of harm.

frustrating.

One symbolized by the religion of peace.

Oh, …no.

Say it ain’t so.

And yet… statistically, I’m still way more likely to be killed by a Christian male than by anyone else.

This is just so sad and scary that “soft” targets and large #s of civillians seem to be the trend. Really hard to understand people who want to have high body counts of innocents.

You are rather unlikely to be killed by a male who is motivated by Christianity to commit the crime.

Yeah, what’s the global body count attributable to explicitly declared crusade in the last couple of decades?

I think the ‘religion of peace’ has a big lead.

^The problem is that those fanatics have taken over a faith but we shouldn’t accept they represent it. Buying into the terrorists’ discourse is letting them win. They’re no more Muslim than are Christian those who bomb abortion clinics or bombed a movie theater in Paris decades back.

It’s the new normal because it’s the post-cold war’s primary conflict - the parameters aren’t Muslims vs. Christians, but rather Absolutists vs. Pluralists - those who believe there is only one way to believe, act, dress, worship, that the belief in choice, human rights, free will, or any slight deviation from their absolutist definition of reality needs to be punished by death and anyone who questions the sanity of this ideological system needs to have their entire “family” destroyed, vs. those who believe faith is a personal matter and a personal choice, voting is a right/a duty and not a danger to be suppressed, men and women are equal and all people have equal rights, etc.
Many Muslim countries are absolutist (ie. Saudi Arabia) but Muslims who live in pluralist countries are, by and large, pluralists themselves. The estimation is that about 5% French Muslims are “extremists” but salafism and whahabism are gaining ground in poorer areas, where they tend to be concentrated. Otherwise, the vast majority of French Muslims are remarkably similar to French Catholics, Protestants, and vast majority of atheists/nonbelievers; it’s the country where “being Muslim” or any one religion makes the smallest difference in people’s beliefs/opinions. French Muslims are the most “national” of all… which enrages groups that purports to represent “fighting muslims”, because French Muslims think those groups are a bunch of fanatical murderers who have nothing to do with them. Essentially, the very existence of French Muslims, as they function as a group, is an offense against Isis.

The very existence of “free” countries where their very existence is questioned is a threat to absolutist thinkers. They may lure our children by speaking to their idealism but even they realize that once there the kids start thinking for themselves and often regret being there. Some have drunk the koolaid obviously but most just try to make do once they realize they’re stuck and can’t figure out a way out. Girls who are married off and have children may wish to return to their families, boys will be sent on suicide missions as cannon fodder to prevent any from fleeing. As a reward they are now allowed to use Facetime/skype to talk with their parents, and of course they say they’re very happy and love their lives, and parents say they don’t recognize their child.

There’s a special cell in Paris dedicated to un-brainwash people who were in cults- there’s one for pseudo-Asian religions, one for pseudo-Catholicism, one for pseudo-protestantism, one for pseudo-islam. The pseudo-islam group is very very busy because all minors who return from any of these conflict-zones spends time there. These minors may have names like Léa and Clément (the last two I heard of), which shows it really isn’t related to religion. I don’t know how they handle adults. In addition, anyone who’s been to Syria, Iraq, even Turkey is there are reasonable suspicions it was to pass into an Isis-controlled zone, etc., for any reason, has a “S profile”, can be wiretapped, their mail/packages can be inspected, etc. The privacy laws we have in the US are WAY stronger than what’s applied there. But our reality is that it’s impossible to know what every person is doing, unless you create a surveillance state and suspect everyone.

Not if you live in Paris, which has a much higher population (based on % of overall pop) of “none” Christians than the USA, many of who are poor and unemployed. . But hey, congrats on trying to associate Christians with the atrocities in France.

Look, if it’d been a shooting in a concert hall in the US, I’d have immediately thought disgruntled white male, probably Christian. We have enough examples of this for it to be the logical conclusion for an American who hears of a mass shooting.

But this was Paris, and anyone with a gun is, by definition,either law enforcement or a criminal. You don’t have random people with guns in Paris since they’re illegal. So the odds were very high those were terrorists, of which three groups are currently under watch: the violent anarchist Noborder, the fascistic Blackblok, and Daesh-related. Daesh-related was the most logical conclusion.

They’ve found a Syrian passport on the blown up body of one of the unsuccessful terrorists (there were several who wanted to inflitrate the Stade de France where the France/Germany soccer game took place, but clearly they didn’t make it. They had bombs sufficient to explode in the stadium.)