Path forward for struggling student

Parents Forum
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DS just finished his sophomore year of engineering. He had a horrible first semester freshman year – didn’t fail anything, but had a 2.1 GPA; a better 2nd semester (2.9 GPA). Did fine last semester (3.1 GPA). This semester he had to withdraw from a class because he got too far behind, but the rest of his classes were going okay until finals. He tanked his Deforms final (12 multiple choice questions… yuck), which caused him to fail the class. His overall GPA is 2.5 now, so he’s still in good standing with the university. But, because he has AP credits, he’s running up against “satisfactory progress” policies for continued enrollment in his major that require he have passed deforms by the time he has 72 credit hours including those from transfer and AP. He has 76 credit hours … 15 of those are from AP – 6 for English, 3 for Calc, 3 for Spanish, and 3 for Govt … only the English and Calc actually affected his schedule at all … the others don’t help him meet requirements but are additional “gen ed” credits over and above what he will need to graduate. So he’s checking with his advisor about what that means for his ability to continue to take classes – does he have to pass deforms before he can take anything else toward his degree? All of his options moving forward hinge on the answer to that question. Whenever he retakes the class, the grade will not replace the failing grade; just gets averaged in as another class.

But in the bigger picture, he’s struggling with wondering if he should continue to pursue engineering or whether he’s just not cut out for it. He says he really enjoys the material he’s learning in his technical classes, and is frustrated because he feels like he knows the material alot better than his grades reflect; he was pretty much getting at/just above the average grade on deforms tests during the semester (which were not multiple choice), and was doing fine on homeworks, but then tanked the final (25% of his grade). He knows that it is very difficult to find internships with a GPA below 3.0, so he’s worried he is unemployable now, because getting his GPA up above a 3.0 in the next 2 years would require almost perfection. He knows that once he gets his first job, the GPA won’t matter so much, but GPA is a barrier to getting the first one. And quite frankly, even getting involved in research when your GPA is below 3.0 is difficult. So he feels backed into a corner with no future. And he has no idea, if he didn’t do this, what he would want to do; this is what he’s really interested in.

For now, we’re waiting for the response from his advisor. Any thoughts from the forum, though?

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What are deforms? Which technical classes has he taken so far and how did he do in them?

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I think you need to hear back from the advisor before making too many plans or assumptions. If you do not hear back in a timely manner, you need to take this up a rung.

You will need to know if he will be eligible to continue in his current major, or in other majors at his school within or outside of engineering, and which majors these would be. I suspect that he might be good to go in a physical science major if he transfers out of the engineering school. It is an option if he enjoys STEM classes. Or, he could look into the possibility of catching up in his major during a year of leave, at another school that might allow him to re-take the failed class.

If he is not sure about staying in engineering or STEM, could he talk with a career counselor about other possibilities? Has he taken aptitude and/or interest surveys?

Getting his GPA above a 3.0 would likely require a 3.5 for the next two years. Not necessarily impossible, but a challenge. Since multiple choice exams seem to be a problem, he might want to work with a tutor who can help him figure out strategies based on the types of mistakes he is making as he works through problems. Or, he can practice by taking technical classes in online MOOCs over the summer, since many of these offer lots of practice in multiple choice.

If he does get permission to re-take the class, I would imagine that this will be in addition to a full semester of other coursework to maintain full-time status and stay enrolled, and depending on what he is taking this could pose additional problems wrt staying caught up with material. I would be prepared ahead of time to ask if his schedule might be tweaked to avoid taking too many other difficult classes during that semester.mDoes his school allow an extra semester, or is there a course he can take over the summer to lighten his schedule?

Not to minimize his concerns (one of mine had GPA challenges), but if worries about getting an internship or job, or becoming permanently unemployable as a result of his freshman/sophomore GPA are overwhelming him, these might prove additional obstacles to his capacity to focus, demonstrate resilience, and make the most of his remaining years of study.

Hopefully he will calm down some once he learns where he stands.

4

Deforms = Mechanics of Deformable Materials.

His first semester was horrible. D+ in chemistry; C or C- in calc II and linear algebra; B- in engineering; A in chem lab
Following semesters have been better. B+ in engineering, B- in calc III, B- in programming, B in physics I, B in physics II, B in statics, B in Diff Eqns, B+ in engineering materials.
This semester, B in electrical theory, C in mechanics; withdrew from numerical methods.
He’s taken 4 gen ed classes – all have been A’s.

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Well it’s not dreadful, so I think there is hope. Mechanics of Deformable Bodies is only a pre-requisite for certain things, so he should from a material standpoint, be able to take more courses. The “satisfactory progress” requirements are a different matter. If I were advising his situation, I would allow him to continue since he has shown an upward trend in grades, aside from the MDB course, which he should retake with a different professor if at all possible.

What type of engineering was he originally doing? Mechanical? At this point he has taken the foundation courses, so the Junior and Senior courses tend to be more application oriented (not easier, however!). The “deforms” course is difficult although if they used Hibbeler, I suppose it’s not a bad text.

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I think there is a fine line between struggling with really hard material and feeling proud that you’re learning and mastering it, and floundering due to the frustration of not having your grades (or progress) reflect your comprehension.

Only your son knows his state of mind here.

What was his HS prep like- rigorous, was he one of the top math students?
What kind of career services are at his college and has he wandered over to meet with an advisor?
Can you afford the five year plan for him?
What is he doing this summer and has he done anything career related yet as an internship or shadowing?

There are tons of careers that someone good at math and science are suited for- even if he abandons engineering, so I wouldn’t let that cloud the thinking right now. Your son probably hasn’t even heard of half of them.

Hugs to you. How’s his mood???

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Hopefully, his advisor or someone else there can help him figure this out. Is a 3.0 required for internships? Is there another area of engineering that might be easier? Is he in ME? Maybe Civll?

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If he can continue, I would see how can he do if he reallly ramps up using ALLLL the tools the college provides:

These include:
0) GO TO CLASS, READ THE CHAPTERS, AND DO THE HOMEWORK!

  1. Go to Professor’s office hours and Ask this question: “I know this is a really difficult class-- what are some of the common mistakes students make and how can I avoid them?” Also talk to them about if they think you have a chance to succeed in the class at this point.

  2. If you have problems with the homework, go to Prof’s office hours. If they have any “help sessions” or “study sessions” or “recitations” or any thing extra, go to them. He should go to the Prof’s office hours every week.

  3. Form a study group with other kids in your dorm/class.

  4. Don’t do the minimum…for STEM classes do extra problems. You can buy books that just have problems for calculus or physics or whatever. Watch videos on line about the topic you are studying.

  5. Go to the writing center if you need help with papers/math center for math problems (if they have them)

  6. If things still are not going well, get a tutor.

  7. Read this book: How to Become a Straight-A Student: The Unconventional Strategies Real College Students Use to Score High While Studying Less by Cal Newport. It helps you with things like time management and how to figure out what to write about for a paper, etc.

  8. If you feel you need to withdraw from a class, talk to your advisor as to which one might be the best …you may do better when you have less classes to focus on. But some classes may be pre-reqs and will mess your sequence of classes up.

  9. For your tests, can you evaluate what went wrong? Did you never read that topic? Did you not do the homework for it? Do you kind of remember it but forgot what to do?

  10. How much time outside of class do you spend studying/doing homework? It is generally expected that for each hour in class, you spend 2-3 outside doing homework. Treat this like a full time job.

  11. Have you been focusing on other things rather than school work? (sports, partying, rushing fraternities/sororities, video gaming etc etc)? Have you been distracted by any issues in dorm life or emotionally? Any medical/mental health issues?

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What is plan B? If not now for plan B, when? Subsequent courses in the sciences will be more difficult and/or build on classes with which he has already struggled.

Plus, college should be fun and it is no fun to be trailing the pack and even failing classes. I would be surprised if he is enjoying himself.

If he is truly adamant that he still enjoys it and wants to be an engineer (as opposed to false pride and wanting to stick it out at all costs) then buckle down with all of the advice above. But if I were the general manager of the team, I think I would move him to a different position.

10

Could he take general physics and computer science, see if he likes the subjects and does well in them?
Taken along with deforms and a gen ed, they wouldn’t be barred due to sap, would let him rest out other stem fields and envision other stem careers, and may help his GPA?

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@ailinsh1 Late post. When I read about your son’s grades, they were EXACTLY like my son’s in college. I share that with you to make sure you know that your son is definitely not the only kid who ever found engineering challenging. My son started with a 2.2 the first semester freshman year, and a D in Chem, after rushing for a fraternity and not studying much. Got another D in something second semester, but did a little better otherwise. He ended up with about a 2.9 as a Mech E after four years, but he only reached the 2.9 because of the GPA boosts he got from his non-engineering courses.

Your son is on an upward trend, so that is a great sign. VA Tech needs to find a way to help him stay in engineering. Without being pushy, help your son work with his counselor to get him into the major he wants. If you actually have to drive there and meet together with them, that would be worth it, if the counselor would permit it. They should care about him as a person and the two years of time he has invested at their school - and, of course, the money you have invested!

I hope your son will stick it out in engineering, if he wants to. He may or may not not get a job from on-campus interviews, if there are a lot of kids with higher GPAs competing for those positions, but it seems like most engineers DO get jobs, even with GPAs below a 3.0. Since I think you & your husband are current or former engineers, you may have friends or connections to help him get in the door for an internship and/or a real job eventually. Most people do get jobs through networking and friends who have connections. If he is personable, that will help. And, there is usually a healthy job market in the DC/VA/MD area.

One thing my son did to try help his GPA and finish engineering in four years was to take summer courses. He did one 6-week summer study abroad through his school that earned him six required engineering credits. In a second summer, he took a 4 or 5-week class at George Mason Univ that fulfilled another requirement. I researched for him where he might find summer classes near our home that could count for credit at his college, GMU, UVA, UMD, etc might all be options for your son up there. He might even be able to do a job during the day and find a night or onlne course…Or better, maybe VA Tech has a summer course he could take if he already has an apartment rented for the year. If too late for this summer, he might be able to fit in an internship and a summer course next summer, or possibly a short one over winter break?

When someone is taking only one or two classes at a time, he can usually can do better. That was my personal experience in college and I know my son found that to be true.

Another idea to help the GPA is to plan for one extra semester, so he could take a slightly lighter load each semester. Many kids I know did that for engineering and graduated in 4.5 years.

Just some food for thought, since we were totally in your shoes three years ago.

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Thanks, @MOMANDBOYSTWO for that encouragement, as well as everyone else, for chiming in.

Here’s an update.
He contacted his advisor and she confirmed he can continue to take classes in his major, but he is on “academic warning” (not probation – nothing in his record, but it is them waving the flag at him and letting him know he’s in dangerous waters); he has to write a plan of action by August about what he is going to do to improve his grades.

During the first summer session he re-took Deforms and also took a 4xxx level math class (operational methods), both online. Tests for deforms were proctored through our local CC; tests for op methods were take-home/open book/open note. He worked his butt off, and got high A’s in both classes. It was a good experience all around – good for him to build his own confidence that yes indeed, he can do this stuff and do it well; good for us to be able to actually observe him doing it and see that he really does seem to honestly, truly, enjoy it. As hard as he was working, he was never griping, and fairly routinely he’d get chatty about something cool he was learning or a cool problem he encountered or a neat way he solved a problem, etc… His school does not do grade replacement, so the A doesn’t replace the failing grade, but averages out to a C for that class. Still GPA-wise, he’s back on track. Not stellar yet, but hopefully onward and upward.

As for how to proceed, we’ve discussed two options with him: (1) Go back full time (14 credits this next semester) as originally planned, and really buckle down and grind it out. ALL of his classes next semester are in-major classes. He has a big opportunity to boost his in-major GPA if he can do well; the converse, of course, is also true. (2) Go back part time (7 credits – 1 lab + 2 classes), and work part time to help pay for his housing. This would delay graduation by a year, but give him the opportunity to focus on a few classes at a time and really get his GPA up. We’d ask him to take some loans when he goes back full time to help offset the cost of the extra year. At this point he says he really wants to do (1). He has another couple of weeks in which to finalize his decision.

So, hopefully in 2 years we’ll be looking back on this as just a bumpy, curvy path to an ultimately successful college experience…

13

Best of luck to your S moving forward.

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@ailinsh1 You couldn’t have asked for a better summer result to help him remain in engineering! I didn’t want to see him give up or the school to give up on him after he has already gotten this far. YAY!