<p>
Allmusic,</p>
<p>It seems you have put a lot of thought and even some Rove-type analysis into the demographics of the Republican Party. I’m interested in your analysis of the Democratic Party.</p>
<p>The Democratic party also profits nicely from corporate affiliation. The party suffers from its own fringe members, the “Progressives”, who are just as whacked as the right wing fringe. The Democratic party cannot get a clear consensus on how to deal with the war, because, like the GOP, it is very busy trying to appease its base.</p>
<p>(On edit: I am an equal opportunity critic…not bound by party affiliation)</p>
<p>
Do go on…</p>
<p>Who might these “fringe members” be? </p>
<p>You seem much more forthcoming on the Republican fringe…with nothing more than “fringe members” to describe your hee-haw fringe members [that pesky ole ‘law of identity’ again]</p>
<p>So, as I understand, your “fringe members” are your fringe members. Let me think this through for a while.</p>
<p>
Do you actually know anyone who works in the “military industrial complex?” These are not monolithic entities run by a cabal of co-conspirators. I do know people who work in the defense industry – like any other business they are a diverse group of people. Those that I know are hard-working, patriotic and extremely intelligent. While they generally make a good living, they could certainly have chosen more lucrative employment. </p>
<p>It’s also the case that the current aerospace companies also work in commercial areas also i.e. Boeing. Quite a few aerospace companies went out of business or were acquired during the late 80’s and 90’s, such as Hughes Aircraft Systems. </p>
<p>The work they do in large, complex systems is very difficult, yet is critical to the national security of this country. These companies often find it difficult to remain profitable, which means they are at risk of going out of business. Then who is going to produce the things we need to equip our soldiers and defend our country?</p>
<p>we are not talking about hired help, the military industrial complex- those few companies that get Billions of dollars a year to do whatever…the people that RUN the companies </p>
<p>Yeah, and competitive like Halliburtan</p>
<p>Top Ten Companies 2002</p>
<p>1 - Lockheed Martin Corporation $17 billion
2 - Boeing Company $16.6 billion
3 - Northrop Grumman Corporation $8.7 billion
4 - Raytheon Company $7 billion
5 - General Dynamics Corporation $7 billion
6 - United Technologies Corporation $3.6 billion
7 - Science Applications International Corporation $2.1 billion
8 - TRW Incorporated $2 billion
9 - Health Net, Inc. $1.7 billion
10 - L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc. $1.7 billion</p>
<p>BTW, many of the companies are owned by one of the others, but for contracting and bidding and for small business purposes, they are separated out</p>
<p>ANd the really big #s</p>
<p>"the Big Three weapons makers–Lockheed Martin Corporation, Boeing Corporation, and Raytheon Corporation–now receive among themselves over $30 billion per year in Pentagon contracts. This represents more than one out of every four dollars that the Defense Department doles out for everything from rifles to rockets.</p>
<p>so 3 companies have 75% of the $$…SUPRISE</p>
<p>The “War of Terror” has cost the government approximately $430Billion, and nearly ninety cents of every dollar has gone to the Defense Department. </p>
<p>That’s a chunka change for folks in the military industrial complex, and whether or not they are patriotic or hard working is actually immaterial. Just imagine if we weren’t at war…things in that complex would not be quite as solvent.</p>
<p>And take a look at the names of the people in the bigwhig positions in the companies CGM has mentioned. No partisanship or agenda there, no way!</p>
<p>AM,</p>
<p>re: post #183, well?</p>
<p>Your not going to dummy-up on me, now are ya? (and remember, CGM is listening so be polite;))</p>
<p>FS, will you please rephrase your question in clear English? I am afraid my feeble brain can’t make sense of what you’ve written, and G-d forbid I misconstrue your point.</p>
<p>lookheed martin proftis up 53%- ah, poor babies, can’t make a profit</p>
<p>CGM, they are good people, probably giving most of those profits to charity.</p>
<p>i know…I feel so bad, though that it wasn’t up 60%</p>
<p>Not sure what hte Hughes Aircraft point was supposed to be…if it was an example of there not being a military industrial complex, not such a good one:</p>
<p>Raytheon and Boeing ate it up…</p>
<p>
not sure what part of this you don’t get. Seems like clear English (though I suppose there are certain jejune delights in suggesting otherwise). </p>
<p>Let’s try this:</p>
<p>-Who-
-might-
-these-
-“fringe-
-members”-
-be-
-?-</p>
<p>or,</p>
<p>who…might…these…fringe…members…be…?</p>
<p>Please let me know if you need me to re-write this convoluted question in dialect.</p>
<hr>
<p>You were very clear on the “Republican fringe”; but because, as you say,
I thought perhaps you could give us your well thought out, “non-partisan” identification of the Democratic fringe.</p>
<p>So far, all you’ve offered is that that “the Democratic fringe” is “the Democratic fringe.” You’re so much more forthcoming on the Republican fringe, especially as it relates to many of those that practice Christianity.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>I already answered that question in #182, but I am the patient type. In plain English, the dominionists and religious radical right constitute part of the GOP fringe, and the screaming ANSWER, terror apologist folk constitute part of the left’s fringe. <shrug></shrug></p>
<p>for those interested, here is Eisenhowers Speech</p>
<p><a href=“http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html[/url]”>http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html</a></p>
<p>…This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.</p>
<p>In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist…</p>
<p>I don’t mind the fringe so much, I think some pretty interesting people were considered fringe…</p>
<p>
Could it be possible that, as people mature and move into leadership positions, they tend to become more conservative?</p>
<p>The current budget for national defense is about 3.7% of GDP. At its highest during the Viet Nam war is was about 9%. <a href=“U.S. Department of Defense”>U.S. Department of Defense;
<p>
If a missile ever reaches U.S. territory, Americans will be shouting, “I want my Missile Defense System!” It’s so easy to bash the companies that produce defensive weapons (in my mind, they’re all defensive weapons). If you don’t like the oil companies, ride a bike and burn wood for heat. (except that might increase global warming!:))</p>
<p>There have been systems which considered “profit” a crime. Fortunately, they crashed, along with the Berlin Wall.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So then, the Bush administration–Republicans generally–are being driven by the “Dominionists”?! For god’s sake, how many are out there? Should we be afraid? Bolt the doors? Are they the mysterious “military industrial complex”?</p>
<p>If that is it, I’m not so sure what’s getting you all up into high dudgeon.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I feel the same way about your “terror apologists” --who cares?</p>
<p>Frankly, they are insignificant cow bells–I’ve neither met, nor could I name one of them. Strange that they inspire so much fear and loathing amongst those that “scream” their answers and predict the decline of civilization as we know it. It’s gospel, I guess.</p>
<p>Says me:
It’s nothing a sports addiction couldn’t cure. </p>
<p>Go Devils! (NJ hockey–not the slayer of worlds and destroyer of humankind–[not to confuse: that’s Satan, not GW Bush])</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>
Booyah!!</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>Read my lips…er…post…there FS. Fringes don’t drive a party; that’s why they are called “the fringe”.</p>
<p>Incidentally, what is it with you and cowbells?</p>
<p>sjmom, you said the defence contracters had a tough time making a profit, so I just pointed out it wasn’t that hard…oppys</p>