<p>Unless the students in question want to graduate early from college (usually for financial reasons), they can use some of the credits to essentially gain free elective space in their schedules. Most schools do not require students to graduate early if they enter from high school with community college or AP credit.</p>
<p>For example, your son’s intended major typically requires four semesters of math. If he has already taken those courses before graduating from high school, he gets space for four semesters of free electives which he can use for any exploration he wants, whether in-major or out-of-major.</p>
<p>I agree that math & science are part of the liberal arts & LACs which have distribution requirements will have math & science as part of everyones course schedule, even those lit majors.
However, I don’t think of liberal arts when I think of STEM majors- I think of engineering & technology ( which I think is better addressed in graduate school- save me from engineers whom have never taken a history or philosophy course in their life)</p>
<p>People here seem to conflate “liberal arts” and “humanities”.</p>
<p>“Liberal Arts” does, however, exclude a bunch of things that are oriented towards professional training rather than pure knowledge – specifically things like engineering, nursing, accounting, business, etc. That’s really the debate: It’s do you study the structure of the world from some angle or another, then go out and try to apply your skills to learn a trade, or do you go to college to learn a trade, then go practice it? Traditionally, American elite education has strongly favored the former, but obviously the latter approach has lots of fans.</p>
<p>I know that, it’s just easier to say liberal arts then humanities, arts, and some social sciences.</p>
<p>All of us “STEM-triumphist” or w/e should get together and come up with a word for STEM + some social sciences (like econ.) and a word for humanities, some social sciences, arts, etc.</p>
<p>No, all of you STEM-triumphalists should try using language precisely. If you use terms that mean one thing to mean something else because you are too ignorant or lazy to know the right meaning, and you brag at the same time about how rigorous your education is, it makes you look like a clown.</p>
<p>(I should add that the vast majority of STEM types I know are very careful and precise in their use of language. As I would expect. They also don’t go around denigrating other areas of academic inquiry.)</p>
<p>No, most STEM majors I’ve encountered in my life are quite normal people who value the humanities and wouldn’t think to put them down or say that there was no value in them - they just choose to major in something else that better suits them. It’s only on CC that I’ve found these STEM majors who bash the humanities, see no interest / value in them (“don’t mix your Shakespeare with my physics”) and have no concept of employment opportunities outside STEM fields. If that shoe doesn’t fit you, don’t wear it.</p>
<p>And funny how I was a math major, married to a bio major, and parent of at least one (probable) science major. The difference is, we’re not so ignorant as to say humanities aren’t valuable fields that enrich life.</p>
<p>Wish I had time to read this whole thread. Looks fascinating. Maybe we should also come up with acronyms for some more liberal arts-type majors:
RASP (Religious studies, Art History, Sociology, philosophy)
FISH (Film, International Studies, Sociology, History)
Others?</p>
<p>Found out not long ago that D has been concealing a near failing history grade - i am more LIVID than I have been in a good long time. i could barely gather myself to write a reply to her teacher - unbelievable. In our eyes this gives her even less latitude and in addition makes us trust her less. </p>
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<p>I hadn’t considered the CC option but with what we found out today and what i have always felt about my D it might be better at least for a couple of years … if she chose to take the CC route we would probably fund her because of the dramatic lower cost. What are some incentives we could give her to go to a CC without making her feel like she is “settling”.</p>
<p>How about this…if she completes her two year course of study at the Community College (with you paying) you will fund her final two years at a school of her choice (that has an articulation agreement with the community college…so her courses transfer)…in any major she chooses.</p>
<p>Be prepared that (a) this in all likelihood rules out engineering unless she plans to take 5 yrs to complete undergrad and (b) she probably does not want to pursue engineering anyway so it doesn’t really matter. Understand that this economy stinks, but let her pursue what she wants or it may wreck your relationship with her. My kids did choose engineering (though younger one started as a Chem/Hx major and became a Chem E/psychology major when he decided not to go to medical school and wanted to be employable). So I totally get where you are coming from, but that said, I would not force my kid to major in something they had no interest in. Recipe for disaster and failure.</p>
<p>Just for fun - some things I know for SURE that humanities and social science majors are doing 1-2 years out of college (since I know these peopel) :</p>
<p>English - working at a startup and then going to business school (that’s me), working in marketing, working as teachers/TFA, Rhodes Scholarships and other prestigious graduate fellowships, nonprofit management, medical school, Peace Corps
Economics - big banks, Big 4 accounting, consulting companies, environmental analyses firms, business columnists
Art History - publishing, public relations, teaching, starting their own companies, graduate program in medical illustration
Women and Gender Studies - newspaper columnists, Planned Parenthood administration, political campaign work, graduate school in WGS, nature conservationism, general entry level job work (review site account manager, human resources position, etc), law school
History - teaching English abroad, law school, TFA, finance (big bank)</p>
<p>etc etc. Bottom line, if you work hard, do well in school, get work experience (ps, every one of my internships paid and all of them were great learning experiences and intellectually stimulating!) you will shine and there will be opportunities for you post-college.</p>
<p>This is a serious post, not intended to insult. </p>
<p>I really don’t understand. Would you be less LIVID if she TOLD YOU that she was getting a near failing grade in history? Maybe she’s afraid of disappointing you. Maybe she thought that she could turn it around and didn’t need to tell you. </p>
<p>Some of my D’s friends have told her that they got grounded for getting Bs. One killed herself a few years ago many suspect from this kind of parental pressure. I wouldn’t know what to say to those parents. For them it’s too late. </p>
<p>Parents, if you do anything, teach your kids to love their lives. </p>
<p>Your D will be an adult shortly. You’re just going to have to trust her that you raised her with good values and let her make her own mistakes. She will make them no doubt. Everyone does. You can suggest, but you can’t force. You can play devil’s advocate, but you can’t decide. You need to make sure she knows that she has your support even when she fails. </p>
<p>If you keep tightening the leash, it will just be counterproductive and you will ruin her life.</p>
<p>Definitionally, not liberal arts, except for music, which was part of the quadrivium. In terms of educational approach, “liberal arts” curricula tend to be uniformly ambivalent about arts performance, usually offering a range of performance courses, but not accepting performance majors . . . and not necessarily being consistent about it. </p>
<p>The University of Chicago – which tends to be absolutist in rejecting anything remotely vocational – now offers a Theater and Performance Studies major (surprisingly popular) and a Visual Arts major (unsurprisingly not so popular), but no music performance major. Performance courses are required for music theory/history majors. Among the options offered to meet core curriculum requirements are acting and painting/drawing courses, too. There is no creative writing major, but creative writing courses are offered, and there is a creative writing track in the English major.</p>
<p>The Yale of my youth offered a Fine Arts major that was practice-oriented, but no theater major, music performance, or creative writing, despite being awash in extracurricular theater, music performance, and aspiring novelists/playwrights/poets. Those things were nurtured and cherished as part of the university, but not as part of the curriculum.</p>
<p>Thumper, what is a “tag.” I see it there at the bottom. Who writes the tag?</p>
<p>“What I have always felt about my daughter…” Wow. Maybe the daughter needs some tutoring or academic support, ore even testing. Some learning issues emerge around this age. Earlier the OP mentioned work to “build character.” If this is a ■■■■■, we are indeed gullible, and if it is not a ■■■■■, I feel really really sorry for this girl.</p>
<p>Okay, really, I’m going to stop coming on this thread. I have the flu and in my limited state this thread appears to hold a strange fascination. Off to a better place, bed.</p>
