<p>First, this thread is hilarious and I’m enjoying every minute of it. (My head exploded, too. )</p>
<p>Second, as a mother who’s had the “OMG, you want to do what?!” experience, I can offer the following suggestions:</p>
<p>Eliminate the job requirement. This is completely unfair and definitely puts your son out there as favorite. To answer the question in your title, YES, it is WRONG!</p>
<p>Ask her minor in Womens Studies instead of major. </p>
<p>Ask her double major Womens Studies + something else.</p>
<p>Ask her to postpone a major declaration until the very last minute…usually 4th semester. As she spends her first 2 years fulfilling gen ed requirements she may find a different major that she likes better and is easier for you to swallow. It is very common for college kids to change major. IMO, no 17 year old should be expected to commit to a single life path. </p>
<p>You both need to be flexible here. She needs to look at other majors and you need to look at funding a Womens Studies degree. Maybe you won’t pay $50k per year at an elite school for that major. But would you pay $10k at your in-state safety? </p>
<p>If you really can’t find peace between her wants and your wallet, then CC is probably the most logical direction.</p>
<p>Thirdly, I agree with the consensus here. Your position is so draconian and narrow-minded that you do sound like a ■■■■■. But, in the off chance you’re for real; I had to offer suggestions for your daughter’s sake.</p>
<p>Post #57 by ellemenope is AWESOME!!! The richest woman in the UK was a calssic lit major! My kid is an engineer. BUT, I was an Oriental Studies major with a Cultural Anthropology minor in the 1980’s. How useless is that?!!! My CPA Dad almost crapped his pants!!</p>
<p>Well, after mastering Japanese and living there for 10 years, I came back and got an MBA in international business management and now I am an international insurance, finance and estate planner with a Fortune 100 company. I’ve traveled in 22 countries and placed millions of dollars of business.</p>
<p>Yep, liberal arts and funky major are absolutely useless!! My “weird, warm and fuzzy”" undergrad major gave me the cross-cultural communication skills and the empathy with other ways of life to succeed in ways that would have been impossible had I been a straight business major.</p>
<p>Let her start in gender studies – I changed my major 5 times as an undergrad. Undeclared liberal arts, astronomy, music (yes, MUSIC!!), anthropology, then oriental studies. I can tell you right now that things did not work out and I am a total failure. ;-)</p>
<p>Disclaimer to all to might decide that I am “trolling”, I have a huge appreciation for liberal arts, my beloved and bright sister is majoring in English and journalism, and I will be majoring in astrophysics. </p>
<p>Allgussiedup, I see your point but I’m not sure if I agree with your method. Gender studies really is not applicable for a job in Todays market, even one 4 years from now. Heck, astrophysics has a notoriously bad job market, so I won’t say anything, but you do need SOMETHING in which you can use to get a job. Remember your daughter really doesn’t need to go into STEM to be a good applicant or to get a job-but gender studies…may not be the way to go. Maybe you should, instead of pushing her into a major she doesn’t want, nudge her towards getting a dual degree if gender studies is truly her passion. Two degrees is better than one, especially in this market, and she could major in another area that would be more profitable as well as gender studies. I would actually not say that its specific to liberal arts that don’t study as much. Physics, medicine, and engineering are the hardest things to major in college typically, varying on the school and programs. 20-25 hours a week…in my opinion as a sophomore in hs with the time I have I don’t think I could do that, but your daughter does seem like a powerful worker and motivated. Really look into a compromise, like a dual degree that she pays 50% or something along those lines. Liberal arts is profitable, if your daughter loves gender studies and gets good grades, there ARE jobs out there for it and the most qualified get them, and if your daughter is the most qualified…don’t write it off</p>
<p>I agree with DougBetsy’s suggestions about minoring or double majoring, except for the suggestion to spend the first years fulfilling gen eds. </p>
<p>While I encouraged my children to major in their first choices at college, I also let them see (by mapping out projected course loads for four years) how they could study their desired majors and also have time to pursue a second major or minors in order to make themselves more marketable or simply enjoy themselves. Many of the required “core” courses or gen eds at their schools (one Ivy and one Big 10) can be used for minors or special programs if chosen properly. With this planning done early in the college career, it can be subsequently changed as the child changes his or her direction, wants to fit in some newly discovered courses, has scheduling conflicts, or wants to kick back and take it easy for a semester or two. </p>
<p>For example, if my daughter wanted to major in women’s studies, she could double major or minor in economics in order to fully understand the economic forces involving women, accounting or business in order to help run a nonprofit, communications in order to get the message out about woman’s issues, or marketing or advertising in order to change people’s minds or get them interested in the issues. I would consider all of these a way to enrich a women’s studies major, and allow wider job opportunities. I would look for colleges that would allow such flexibility and map out some possible courseloads before she picks her first courses.</p>
<p>My problem with the double major scenario is that from what I’ve seen she wouldn’t be focused and instead of doing good things in one major would suffer in both. Double major = twice the work twice the homework and -eek- twice the money. Minor is a reasonable scenario but at the college D is going to I think the minor requirements are very lenient and you can get away with taking two-three classes which IMO gets you nowhere. </p>
<p>
Well we ask her every single day how each of her classes is going and are always met with an apathetic “fine,” compared to our S who was always pretty enthusiastic and willing to interface w/ us about his class time, a surprise probably because HS boys aren’t known for that. If she had just told us this before instead of the constant “fine” “fine” “fine” maybe we could have helped her. We would have been angry and frustrated but not THAT angry, it’s not like we beat our children. We aren’t the kind to express disappointment too. It’s just this time it feels as if she was purposefully hiding something to get away with it which is JUST “unacceptable.” </p>
<p>Also to whoever brought up J.K. Rowling - I don’t see your point. JK Rowling is famous BECAUSE she is an amazing writer who went from rags to riches by writing a book that brought happiness and inspiration to millions. she is one of a kind. According to statistics most non-technical majors fare maybe about 1 millionth as well as she has. You could bring up plenty of successful and well known people who happened to be liberal arts majors but the fact is that your average workaday Joe liberal arts major fares dismally in today’s job market, which (i’m adding this for the “READING IMPAIRED” who think I have a personal vendetta or violent hate against the liberal arts) is unfortunate for the creative people that do wish to succeed in liberal arts.</p>
<p>It sure seems that the often reoccurring theme of STEM vs LA discussions increase blood pressures and cause a further re-entrenchment of each faction. Usually I stay away from these debates because it can quickly become a bit of a hen pecking. However, having just given blood and thus still somewhat spacy I dare to venture forth at this time.</p>
<p>Granting the OP non-■■■■■status, and also granting that the delivery of their point may be somewhat harsh, they are not necessarily the controlling ogre some are making them out to be. I get the sense they are concerned with the future financial viability of their kiddles. I would venture a guess that most parents on CC wish for their much loved and nurtured offspring to become independent adults at some point after the glorified college years have ended. And, IMHO, financial independence is a necessary component. And, while each individual situation is unique I do think it is possible to make certain generalizations. If not, then statistics needs to be offered in the School of Philosophy, Religious and Mystical studies. ;)</p>
<p>Is it more difficult to find employment after graduation with certain UG degrees than with others yup! So, as parents is it not our responsibility to bring this to the attention of our sons and daughters? While it is noble to smile and say go for what makes you happy …I find it an abdication of parental responsibility to not follow that statement with .and here are the statistical outcomes of certain choices. Why is this such a taboo subject? </p>
<p>I think we need to ask our kids how they envision their lives after college. What might it be like if they need to spend another X number of years paying off debt. What are the trade offs? What might it be like if they need to work for some period of time at minimum wage or low wage positions. What if they will statistically HAVE to go to grad school to make their UG viable? Will it mean postponing some other things they may have in the back of their minds family, mobility, cars, vacations, living on their own etc… All those things that after 16 years of schooling and asking mom and dad for $$ are going to be very appealing… And, no, these are not unfair questions to ask an 18 year old to ponder.</p>
<p>Believe me I know . What I mean is that whoever posted that was trying to make the point which of “don’t doubt your liberal arts son or daughter because he or she could grow up to be J.K. ROWLING some day!”</p>
<p>Double majoring is NOT twice the money, twice the homework, or twice the studying and can in many cases be done in four years. In many cases, it is just a judicious choosing of courses (especially gen eds) and taking 16-18 credits a semester. What do most colleges require for degrees? 120 credits? How many are required for the specific majors involved? Far less.
As for focusing in a major, IMHO, it is more important to focus on what you want to DO with the major, and if double majoring or minoring will give you more skills and allow you to have more of a choice in what you DO with a major, then you are getting added value for your added effort.</p>
<p>I really have yet to figure out how “financial security” is tied to what one majors in in college. I graduated from a top university 25 years ago. Most of my closest friends were liberal arts, journalism, communications or theatre/music majors. ALL of them are financially secure. They have all had meaningful productive careers, even the ones who chose to go a different route for grad school (usually business or law school). </p>
<p>I also know many people who had engineering degrees, and they are also doing well. My point is it really doesn’t matter that much - in the long run - what you major in in college. In fact, it generally only matters (and then not so much) in getting your FIRST job out of college.</p>
<p>What makes you think it’s twice the money? DD double majored and her majors were in two different colleges within her university (engineering and arts/sciences). It didn’t cost us one penny more for her second major to be added. </p>
<p>The thing is…even ONE major in an field your daughter isn’t interested in would not likely be a success. Most students at the college level are studying in areas of interest…and especially at the upper level where the courses DO become much more challenging, it’s important that the student be invested in the field of study.</p>
<p>Your daughter really WILL find her way…regardless of her major. She will have career options to explore. She’ll get there…they all do!</p>
So. What? A minor is a minor. You’re really going over the line now if you think YOU get to judge whether a program’s requirements are good enough. That’s up to school. Count your blessings if minoring is a compromise you can live with and that makes your D happy.</p>
<p>The first thing you need to do is to stop comparing your children so much–i.e., you can express your disappointment at her concealing her grade without resorting to a comparison to how her brother did things. I hope you don’t openly express your feeling that she doesn’t measure up to him, but it’s not even a good way to regard her within your own mind. </p>
<p>Other examples of how things work out–S was a history major, is now handling new media for a boutique PR firm. D started out as a arts major, changed twice, now as a junior has a career path she feels good about. Neither had a clue at age 18 because they didn’t have the knowledge base or experience to select a career–I’m always amazed and troubled when I hear about some teen who is already committed to medicine or environmental studies or whatever, based on so little life/academic experience.</p>
<p>You can major in pretty much anything in undergrad and still go on to a different graduate program and do extremely well - for example, I majored in psych and I plan to pursue business school for marketing management, particularly consumer behavior. Gender studies will rely heavily upon psychological (as well as biological!) concepts and courses. She may even be required to take statistics and research methods courses. These are VERY valuable and build up critical thinking skills. </p>
<p>As a side note for Thumper - I worked 30-40 hours through most of my undergrad and had excellent grades, did an honors thesis, had publications, etc. I don’t think working 20-25 hours is excessive if she wants to save up some money and have spending money, but it is AWFUL that the OP would REQUIRE it from her and not from her son. Imagine the message she is sending to this poor girl, and to her son. </p>
<p>And yes, liberal arts courses tend to require a lot of reading and writing, and depending on the school may require lots of presentations, which helps to build written and oral communication skills (very desirable in the workforce). Of course, if she goes to a large university she may not have many writing assignments or presentations until junior or senior year due to the large class sizes the first two years. But at a small liberals arts college, you’ll be doing it in most classes from the get-go. </p>
<p>The fact is, no major is guaranteed to get you anywhere. And if she hates the major, she is likely to not do as well, not take full advantage of all the opportunities she has, and a mediocre student in a popular major won’t make it. If she loves her major she’ll most likely do well, take more advantage of opportunities, and have a chance. Even if you hate the idea of the major now, there’s no telling whether she’ll want to pursue grad school in something different, or the same, and end up just fine. And no, this would NOT be a waste of time to purse something different in undergrad than in grad school. You still need the undergrad degree, and depending what direction she goes in, she might be better prepared with the liberal arts background than a specific science for 4 years.</p>
<p>Who knows, she might even change her major a year or two into college after taking some general ed. requirements.</p>
<p>Can’t read this entire thread, it is so sad. So your son walks on water. He is so much smarter than the girl in the family that he is advising you on what his sister needs to study and what needs to be done to talk some sense into her. And you shake your head in wonderment, where did we go wrong…</p>
<p>As an edit (since I am outside of the time frame to edit my previous message), I want to add that of course she may not pursue grad school at all. She may still be okay. With my psych degree and no internships (I pursued research experience instead for grad school prep), I am a human resources manager and the advancement opportunities are pretty good. Most of my psych peers are still sales associates at the same stores they worked at in undergrad, and some went back to grad school just because there were no jobs (not the best reason to go since it requires a lot of work and dedication, but ah well). If I wouldn’t pursue grad school I could be put on the promotable log and become a salaried operations manager, and many of these end up store managers, and I am still very young and could do it quickly (most people in my company are not well educated and my boss is always telling me how thorough and reliable I am - that’s hard to come by due to high turn over rates in retail). Those salaries are pretty reasonable. </p>
<p>I use my example to show you how things can still work out even with a degree as broad as psychology, since it is similar to gender studies and it overlapped greatly at my school. Even if her first job wouldn’t pay so great, she can work her way up or go back to school later on and pursue something. Your options for advancement and education do not end when you graduate, regardless of your major.</p>
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