Paying for College via Loans & Work - Advice Greatly Appreciated

Paying for College
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<p>I went to some fin aid info sessions that some schools I know offered. Very, very poorly done. So poorly done that I made it a mission for the one private school to pay to bring in fin aid counselors for those kids applying for fin aid along with college apps. That has made a tremendous difference in aid and award packages at that school, and will be one of the accomplishments that I cherish. How long they will continue to do this I don’t know.</p>

<p>But other school also have the problem that parents won’t go to those aid sessions (not the specific counseling ones) anyways. Just about everyone shows up for junior college night. They need a huge auditorium for that. Which is really pablum Nothing important said. All in the handouts given. But everyone is there. The fin aid ones have only a handful of parents. I drove the last one, much to the dismay of the person running it as they weren’t offering any hard stuff–yeah, I could have used a bunch of you CCers there. But the fact of the matter is that too many parents don’t get that they need to learn the ins and outs of financial aid until the actual numbers hit home. Not that the counselors did much in that pathetic presentation anyways. </p>

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<p>Agreed. I have to say…the folks our school hired were not particularly well informed, in my opinion. And agreed, many folks didn’t view these financial aid seminars as very important. </p>

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<p>I went to one at my second child’s HS at the end of her junior year where they had brought in people. They pushed signing up for AP courses - of course there were limited course selections and the kids had filled out and submitted their selection sheets weeks before and most of the classes were full already. Then they gave the speech about how everyone is eligible for financial aid, even families making $250K. It was useless and misleading and I told the counselors that afterwards. I don’t know what they did the next year and we moved before it was time for my third child to go through the process. </p>

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<p>I like the idea of general college preparedness programming for parents w/students in the younger grades, versus Sr. year, so long as the info presented is actually correct! :)) </p>

<p>I have a another parent friend who is on the advisory board at our HS & I’m going to mention to her that it would behoove the school, our PTO, whatever, to provide an explanatory session to parents of 9th-graders - in addition to whatever is presented Senior year. As @cptofthehouse‌ mentioned up-thread, there’s a chance that parents would not actually attend such a session. But, after just spending the day doing a little research for my friend, I can see where it is sorely needed. For those who choose to attend, correct information could be invaluable early on. My friend honestly believes her DD can attend sleep-away college via loans and working - and perhaps they can somehow manage it, because each family is different - but it’s a real shame that the DD is ending her Jr. year and this is the family’s expectation. They simply do not know any better and - if I had not stumbled upon CC via a random google search about Duke TIP when my DS was in 7th grade - there’s a bunch I wouldn’t know, either. </p>

<p>Again, this is a useful thread (for me, at least) and I appreciate everyone who is taking the time to post.</p>

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<p>If you are aiming for two presentations, I would suggest ninth grade and eleventh grade. Senior year is late. For example, some of the best merit awards require applications be submitted for admission by December 1. If parents only find that out in sept or oct of senior year, that is not much time to plan.</p>

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<p>There is a gap in the financial aid process that kids and parents alike don’t often get, which is that the parents income and assets figure into what the kid will get until he is independent, and the definition of independence is very specific. Age 24, married, have a dependent (by IRS rules), veteran of the armed forces, a ward of the state or otherwise removed by court order from parents, homeless or in the danger of being so. And those things need proof on paper to meet the requirements. So, no, your kid cannot work for a year and pay all his costs including rent and then is independent. Because parents won’t pay, kid is not independent. </p>

<p>The fact that schools, many of the well known ones herald their policy that all need gets met has a big caveat. That of kid with parents who won’t pay but is deemed able, won’t fill out the forms, that kid is out of luck. They CAN"T get aid. Mom remarried to a guy with six figures with the agreement that he doesn’t have to pay for stepkids college Too bad. His assets and income still count if she’s the custodial parent. Divorce settlements don’t include college so ex won’t pay. Too bad. for PROFILE schools his financials still are counted most of the time. Try telling Harvard, as school with bragging rights that no kid is left without a chance about such situation. Tough luck. Parents are on the line to pay and if they won’t, too bad for the student.</p>

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<p>@thumper1, agreed definitely. Our HS seems to insist on a “Senior college planning night,” but your suggestion is good and I will add that to the list that I give my friend on the advisory board. The “Senior Night” should really be a Junior Night…and a Freshman Night should be added, with a section dedicated to College Financing 101. Even just basic items like FAFSA, EFC, loan caps, etc. might open some eyes. I should add that most of our student population stays in-state, so the counseling office is really not “into” college planning aside from directing kids to the flagship, Junior College, or one of the directionals. However, even these institutions cost money - and I don’t see how students could expect to manage via loans and work only, unless commuting from home.</p>

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<p>I was on a guidance advisory committee after my kids graduated from our high school. The main suggestion I made to them was to move their timeline earlier. Senior year is too late…needs to be dine spring of junior year at the latest. I think they do the junior night in the fall. They also do a senior one, but that is mostly to talk about guidance deadlines, application procedures, etc.</p>

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<p>The financial aid presentation I attended at Happykid’s high school was given by the head of the financial aid office at our local community college. Just the facts, straight up, with no romantic nonsense about dream schools suddenly being affordable. The only thing missing was the link to the FAFSA formula itself. </p>

<p>Since that does change a bit every year, OP, tell your pal to google for EFC formula 2016 , and she should get the PDF as soon as it becomes available. Working through that on paper will help her clarify her thoughts. Here is the current formula: <a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091913EFCFormulaGuide1415.pdf”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091913EFCFormulaGuide1415.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Until about 6 months ago, my flat-broke girlfriend in Kansas City still thought that her kid could go away to college, or at least move into an apartment with some pals while at the community college. Once they both got real about the money, he decided it would be fine to keep on living at home, and just commute. Give your friend a bit more time. Maybe she will get real about her situation too.</p>

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<p><<<<
My friend and her DH have an unfortunate financial situation, including bankruptcy, so my assumption is that they would not qualify for ParentPLUS loans. This might make the DD “independent” and she would thus qualify for more gov’t loans (perhaps)?</p>

<p>Stafford loans available to the DD will increase every year, but basically never exceed $12K/year for undergrad:
<a href=“http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized”>http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>My friend and her DD would not really know any of this “for sure” until after January 2015…after the FAFSA is complete - correct? (To me, this seems very late-in-the-game, but I don’t see how they would have final loan (or grant or workstudy) info any earlier than this.)
<<<<<</p>

<p>The D would not be independent on FAFSA because of her parents credit issues, but she would get loans as if she were independent IF her parents are denied for Plus loans.</p>

<p>Even if the D were borrowing the max each year to pay for tuition, I doubt she could NET enough from a summer job and part-time during the school year to pay for room, board, books, fees, personal expenses, etc. She would probably be lucky to net a couple thousand after a summer job, and her school year job would probably go towards day to day college kid expenses…unless she tried to work toooooo much, and then her grades would suffer.</p>

<p>If she wants to go to KU, then I’m guessing that she wants the full college experience and that suggests that she has no intention of working a bunch of hours during the school year and missing out on college life. The full college experience usually costs money as friends go out, etc. </p>

<p>I would suggest that they let this summer be a practice to see how much she can earn/save over the summer. and see how much she can earn/save during her senior year in high school. That should reveal what she can be expected to earn/save. Right now, the D wants KU over a CC so she may have rose-colored glasses about how much she can earn/save.</p>

<p>also, will she have a car on campus? If not, then that could limit her school-year job choices. She might get work study, but it may only be a small amount (for day to day expenses). </p>

<p>the parents dont have to wait til they do FAFSA next year to get an idea. They can do this::: They can submit this year’s FAFSA to get their EFC which wont change much if income/assets dont change. They can also do the NPC on KU’s website.</p>

<p>If after this summer, they realize how much the D actually can earn/save, that may influence where she’ll apply next fall.</p>

<p>Do both parents work? if so, then their incomes may be too high to qualify for Pell Grants. </p>

<p>What are her stats? there are some schools that give merit for modest stats.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids, thank you - those are all excellent suggestions. I espc like your rationale that this summer should be a “test” re: the DD’s earning potential. I do believe she currently works, but I’m not sure what kind of job she has. It may be babysitting-related.</p>

<p>Your point about work cutting into “the full college experience” is also a good one.</p>

<p>I do not believe the DD will have a car, at least Freshman year. She does not have a car now.</p>

<p>The DH is unemployed - long term - and I don’t see that changing, though perhaps having this information in-hand might be a motivator. I will give my friend the FAFSA and NPC links.</p>

<p>I don’t believe the DD has taken the ACT yet, and I advised my friend to have her start studying using the red book. I doubt the DD will be ready to take the ACT before school starts, but I’ll remind my friend to have her sign up for an early fall test so there’s time to take it twice. The DD’s GPA is in the 3.0UW range. She does not take advanced classes, but she’s a diligent student according to her mom. Knowing the DD casually, I would agree with that assessment - at least as far as I’ve observed.</p>

<p>Thanks, again, for posting a response. I appreciate your time.</p>

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<p>Ok, I’m back w/one last question:</p>

<p>If my friend’s DD applies to a state school like KU - and can somehow come up w/her EFC $ (whatever that may be) via loans and working - will a state school like KU “bridge the gap” to cover the difference between her EFC and KU’s COA, including room & board? I think the short answer is probably “No,” but I want to make sure I’m providing the correct info to my friend. Would the NPC on the KU web site provide my friend w/this info, after she has entered her financial data? Or is room/board even factored-in to the NPC?</p>

<p>I hope I’m phrasing this question(s) correctly. And I do realize that my friend needs to do her own research, but I’m trying to give her a broad outline so she can begin to work through this process w/her DD. My friend has a lot going on in her personal life, and is working hard just to keep her family together & stable, so I thought this was one way I could help her. Plus, she asked for help, and I want to send her down the right path + not confuse her. To me, this is a rather confusing subject!</p>

<p>Thanks for any help.</p>

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<p>Your friend’s DD can apply to any number of schools, and fill out the financial aid apps for them. Some, like KU, will just require the FAFSA filled out as early as possible. The schools will then send out a financial aid award along with acceptance if all of the paper work is fill out in time Yes, it is POSSIBLE that the the school bridge’s the gap, but NOT AT ALL PROBABLE. The FAFSA EFC is almost always the absolute minimum a family will be required to pay, and unless the student goes to a school that is inexpensive, like commuting to a community college or if the student gets a merit award that is large enough to cover all of the need AND part of the EFC, it is rare that any school will meet need as defined by the FAFSA EFC. </p>

<p>Those schools that guarantee to meet full need define their own need, and rare is it that it is less than as defined by the FAFSA EFC. Those schools, like KU, that use the FAFSA EFC to determine need rarely meet 100% of that need. They will give PELL if qualified, throw in any state funds if qualified, give the full Direct loans of $5500, both subsidized and unsubsized, and in many states (NY is an example) throw in some of their own money or works study funds up to the tuition and maybe fees amounts. So there is a chance that a commuter to KU gets full tuition and fees paid with a zero EFC. SUNY schools (the NY state schools) do that. If you have need, it is fully met up to tuition and fees. A student’s living expenses, like room and board, and discretionary, variable expenses like transportation, books supplies, sundries, toiletries, that 's all on you. Why should the state and federal government, or college pay for your kid’s living expenses and things unless that student is so extraordinary that the school absolutely wants the kid on campus, like an athlete or student with top stats? </p>

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<p>Go to <a href=“University of Kansas Tuition | CollegeData”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=940&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You can see that KU fully meets 14.3% of the last year’s freshmen need. That means only 14.3 % of those kids who had need had it fully met, and my bet is that most of them are commuters or had very low need that could easily be met with federal money,and maybe some of the school’s top picks. The average % of need met is 54% which means that if your friend’s DD is “on the average” of KU freshman, about half the need as defined by EFC would be met, and that would likely count the $5500 Direct loans and work study, so the kid can’t borrow towards the EFC since that 's already used up towards the need, and work hours will also be sewn up by the Work study award, so that work options and hours would be limited. </p>

<p>You can see that even if need as defined by EFC were fully met or close (which is rare, 14.3% of the time, to be exact), that need is likely met with that $5500 in student loan so the kid can’t borrow any more, and the workstudy is likely in there too, so the kid is limited in work hours and options. The parent would have to come up with the full EFC with whatever savings, scrimping, borrowing, and the only thing the student can contribute to help if she doesn’t have savings is summer job earnings. </p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse, thank you for the link above. That’s extremely helpful and I’ll send it to my friend - plus use it myself for the schools my DS is interested in. Appreciate it!</p>

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<p>Here is the link to the KU NPC. I ran through it and it appears it ONLY provides merit money. It did not ask for income at all! I would assume that PELL (if eligible) and loans would be all she would “get” from KU unless her grades greatly increase.
<a href=“http://admissions.ku.edu/costcalculator”>http://admissions.ku.edu/costcalculator&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>What a lousy NPC, KU has. How lazy that it doesnt’ include PELL and the Direct loans. </p>

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<p>@NewEnglandMother, thank you for your post. I’m just now seeing it, so my apologies for the delayed response. I gave my friend all the resources and advice provided here in this thread, plus suggested she read a couple of books on college financing that have been recommended on various CC threads, so I do hope she can figure out how to make it all work. </p>

<p>I appreciate the help that everyone provided and the great advice given. Thank you, all!</p>

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<p>There are a lot of ways to save money at KU if the student insists on going there (though I do agree with others above that CC for two years before KU is a much better option).</p>

<p>KU has a program called the “Pell Advantage”. If the student is pell-eligible and has an ACT of 22 or higher and 3.25+ GPA, they will receive the full amount of tuition and fees through a combination of government and institutional aid sources. It does not specifically say through grants/scholarships only on the website, but I’ve talked with many financial aid employees at KU and they have all said it does not include direct loans/work study as part of the pell advantage (those are added on top of the pell advantage). <a href=“Grants | Financial Aid & Scholarships”>http://affordability.ku.edu/financialaid/grants/pell&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Additionally, she can stay in a scholarship hall rather than a dorm. While a traditional dorm and meal plan at KU is around 9,000, all of the scholarship halls are less than 5k a year. If she stayed in Miller or Watkins scholarship halls, she would only pay $2,600 a year. Residents in these halls have to do their own cooking and cleaning though, which may be a turn-off, but it is definitely a good way to save money. <a href=“Affordability | KU Student Housing”>http://www.housing.ku.edu/rates&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>KU also has a four-year tuition compact, so students do not need to factor in a 3-5% increase in costs each year. The rate you pay your freshmen is the same rate you will pay in future years. So while this doesn’t save any money, it is an advantage over other schools because it makes it easier to budget for all four years since you know all costs ahead of time. </p>

<p>Also, the KU NPC does calculate need-based aid. It does merit aid calculations first, then need-based aid calculations in a second step. At the end there is a chart that includes both merit and need-based aid (including pell, direct loans, etc). </p>

<p>I am in a similar financial situation as this student, but I have all of my costs covered (tuition, room and board, books, personal/travel) at KU and will not have to take out any loans. Granted, I did get a lot of merit aid from the university and school of engineering that this student probably will not, but there are a lot of cost-cutting measures the student can take at KU that really help. I think a CC for two years is a much better option, but these ideas could help her save a lot in her final two years, and could be useful if the family does not come to the realization that CC is a better option and sends her to KU for all 4 years. </p>

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<p>the KU NPC does two steps…the first step just deals with merit…the second step deals with income. Maybe newenglandmother didnt see the second step.</p>

<p>does the dad have any earnings at all? is the family’s total income about 55k/</p>