<p>When I did my FAFSA for 2013-2014, it said my estimated EFC was zero and I might be eligible for a Pell Grant of $5645.</p>
<p>The Financial Aid office at Emory just told me I did not receive a Pell Grant because my EFC was $5100 which made me ineligible for a Pell Grant because the cut off is $4000 EFC.</p>
<p>Who has the final word on calculating EFC to determine eligibility for a Pell Grant? The Federal Government or the school that will administer it?</p>
<p>^You should check your FAFSA. Did Emory make correction/updates to your FAFSA?</p>
<p>It sounds like a correction was made to your FAFSA…,which is what is used to determine Pell eligibility. Go to the FAFSA website and check line by line from what you submitted…and see if this is the case.</p>
<p>Yes, sounds like the school was made aware that some info on your FAFSA wasn’t fully correct, so they’re obligated to change it.</p>
<p>Did your parents have income that wasn’t reported on your earlier FAFSA? Child support? Assets? Tax return from the year before? investment income? property sale?</p>
<p>Emory meets full need, so does it matter?</p>
<p>Bob…it might matter. Emory is a Profile school…so eligibility for institutional aid uses the Profile info. It sounds like this family was counting on that Pell grant to cover some costs. It is very possible that the family contribution computed via Profile was well above $0.</p>
<p>But if the FAFSA EFC remains $0, the student would still get the Pell regardless of the computations for institutional need based aid via Profile.</p>
<p>So schools like Emory don’t count a Pell Grant against your need?</p>
<p>I’m not sure how Emory treats the Pell. Yes…most schools would use the Pell as part of the way to meet the need.</p>
<p>Like I said…this family is getting less aid than they thought…or so it sounds.</p>
<p>You can ask Emory what changes they made to your financial aid file - they will explain it to you. Just call & ask.</p>
<p>Maybe the family thought that with a 0 EFC, that a CSS school would also have a 0 expectation, and now the family is thinking…looks like we’re going to have at least a $5100 expectation.</p>
<p>^ What kelsmom said.</p>
<h2>It sounds as if the school “corrected” your FAFSA . . . but just because they had the right to make the correction doesn’t mean they didn’t make a mistake in doing so. They might have, so you need to follow up and find out EXACTLY what was changed, and why. If you disagree with the change, you’ll have to discuss that with the financial aid office, and perhaps supply additional documentation to prove that your EFC really should be zero.</h2>
<p>mom2collegekids - The issue here is Pell grant eligibility. That’s determined by the data entered on the FAFSA. Whether or not this is a CSS school has nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>I agree that it has nothing to do with CSS. I was responding to what the student’s concern might be. They may have thought (wrongly) that a 0 FAFSA EFC would also mean a 0 “family contribution” from a CSS school.</p>
<p>So, if the family’s finances aren’t complicated, and the school’s CSS formula ends up with an expectation similar to the new FAFSA EFC, the family may need to come up with some money.</p>
<p>OP…are you the student or the parent? In another thread, it looks like the parent is posting and mentioned that aid at Emory was awful for them. </p>
<p>Makes me wonder if there was no need with CSS Profile, but hope that FAFSA EFC 0 would provide at least a few thousand???</p>
<p>Did you check to see what changes were made to FAFSA?</p>
<p>If the changes were correct, then that EFC is the final word (schools are obligated to correct FAFSA data if they find an error). If the changes were incorrect, then that is a different story.</p>
<p>Let us know what you find and we can maybe help you figure out if the changes to FAFSA were correct.</p>
<p>Thanks all for posting.</p>
<p>I am the parent. My daughter is entering her junior year at Emory. </p>
<p>I had called the financial aid office before starting this thread. At that time, I didn’t realize the school makes changes to EFC based on their review, so I didn’t know to ask her what changes they made, but I will do so. </p>
<p>BobWallace – the “Emory meets full need” is a carefully worded statement that leaves out the important part – they meet full need as it is perceived by Emory. My adjusted EFC = $5136. Does that mean I am getting loans, grants or aid to bridge the difference between the EFC and COA? No – far from it. The 2013-2014 award was for 2 loans and work study which total $10K. The past 2 years, my daughter applied for several work study jobs and couldn’t get one. So if that continues this year, the actual “aid” is $7500 worth of loans.</p>
<p>We had received the same package for years 1 & 2 but my income had declined so much in 2012, I thought we would now be eligible for some aid. </p>
<p>I am self-employed, which I have learned really hurts when it comes to fin aid because the school adds back items in their income calculation. The fin aid person I talked to said they think my income is > $100,000, when my AGI was $22K. I don’t lie on my tax returns, but I do expense a car, gas, phone (I don’t think I’m alone in this). I don’t understand how these expenses can look like $80k of income to Emory. We don’t own any other real estate, and my husband who is 62 is also self-employed, but he showed a loss last year. I haven’t been able to contribute to a IRA and we don’t have a 401k, so there are no add backs there. </p>
<p>Emory also states on their website that if a family makes less than $100,000, they have “Emory Advantage” which caps student loan debt. I asked if I was eligible for that; she said no, not because of the income, but because they determine eligibility for that program based on cash flow analysis. I asked her for the methodology; she said it was private.</p>
<p>We have assets, but they’re dwindling as we pay for tuition. The Pell Grant would have helped.</p>
<p>At a school like Emory and similar schools which give out large amounts of their own instiutional aid, it is a 2-prong process.</p>
<p>You file the FAFSA to determine your eligibility for federal aid (Pell, Direct loans, FWS, Perkin Loans, SEOG, etc).</p>
<p>You file the CSS Profile or School’s own institutional aid forms to determine yor eligibility for the school to give you their own instutional money</p>
<p>Emory states in the FAQs regarding the Emory Advantage:
</p>
<p>Emory’s definition of Instutional Methodology</p>
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</p>
<p>I had never thought about this before, but what you are saying makes sense. There can be a drastic difference between income per FAFSA and income per profile, at least in the case of self-employed or small-business owners. So in a case where many things are expensed against business revenue, you can be Pell-eligible by FAFSA but not eligible for much institutional aid. I’m just surprised the difference could be so huge that an outrageously expensive school like Emory thinks you need nothing but loans and the feds think you need a Pell Grant.</p>
<p>I am self-employed, which I have learned really hurts when it comes to fin aid because the school adds back items in their income calculation. The fin aid person I talked to said they think my income is > $100,000, when my AGI was $22K. I don’t lie on my tax returns, but I do expense a car, gas, phone (I don’t think I’m alone in this). I don’t understand how these expenses can look like $80k of income to Emory</p>
<p>The school looks at it this way (not just Emory does this): You’re deducting expenses that other people aren’t. If you’re deducting all of your phone, car, etc, expenses, then you’re deducting some expenses that are being paid for with “personal income” - not just business income. </p>
<p>If you (alone) have two cell phones, one for business and one for personal use, then the business one is a legit full expense. But, if you only have one cell phone and you’re using it for both personal and business, then it gets murky…same with car, etc. </p>
<p>I have a cell phone that I only use for business, so it’s a full business expense. But, if I only had one cell phone and I was deducting my $200 a month bill, then I’m actually deducting a portion that is truly a personal expense. </p>
<p>Some of your husband’s business losses may also have been added back in because some are “thin air” in the eyes of colleges.</p>
<p>The point is that you’re not REALLY living on $22k per year. It actually would be offensive to taxpayers for you to get a Pell Grant.</p>
<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>
<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>
<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>
<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>
<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>
<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>
<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>
<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>
<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>
<p>The profile will take into consideration tuition for children attending high school. They may consider school expenses outside of high school for special needs children. They will consider unreimbursed medical expenses and taking care of elderly parents.</p>
<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>
<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>
<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>
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<p>M2CK’s post above fails to address this concern. The OP is not complaining that her business expenses were added back in to reach her “true” income . . . she’s just trying to figure out how her cell phone & car expenses ended up being valued at $80,000!</p>
<p>And I think the explanations of Emory’s institutional methodology in post #16 show that this isn’t actually what happened. Emory makes it clear that not all families with income below $100k qualify for the cap. “Assets . . . family size, home equity, and other factors” are also taken into account. In this case, both husband’s business income and the family assets likely contributed to Emory’s determination that the OP’s family was ineligible for the cap.</p>