<p>I don’t know WHAT this thread is about anymore, but I think anger is a normal part of the grieving process, and it is sometimes directed at the deceased. I recently learned of a woman who hung herself, leaving her child to discover her body. I was taken aback when I realized the intensity of my first, angry response.</p>
<p>I hope the moderators will lock this thread, since some of the posts are hurtful to friends of the deceased and, frankly, are simply shocking to me.</p>
<p>Humans are not robots; by nature, they make mistakes. Anyone with an ounce of esteem or maturity can acknowledge their own limitations, can look back on dumb mistakes, bad judgment calls, and careless behavior. Who hasn’t stepped off a curb at the wrong time, forgot to use their signal, or overdulged at some point in their life? Who hasn’t regretted some action in the past, or thanked their lucky stars they didn’t face the consequences of some youthful misjudgment or transgression?</p>
<p>Let’s face it, some people are simply mean spirited, judgemental jerks that lack basic empathy and compassion for other human beings. They cloak their reality in “rationality” which gives them a false sense of superiority and safety. They too should be pitied: what a terrible and sad way to exist in the world.</p>
<p>People are, well, human. We make mistakes. It is sad that a mistake in judgement (which the young are more prone to) can cost a life. </p>
<p>As far as someone mentioning lung cancer and no sympathy…I feel hurt and touched by that actually. My dad died of lung cancer five years ago at age 75. He smoked when he was younger. He gave up smoking around age 40. When he was dying of lung cancer, he had great regret for ever smoking but I told him he likely lived longer because he gave it up. My dad didn’t “deserve” to die. Cancer is a horrible illness. Smoking is very unwise (I have never had even a drag ever on a cigarette myself). Of course, the anti-smoking campaigns came more into the forefront compared to when my dad was young and smoked. At least he stopped.</p>
<p>It is best to avoid certain risks, to be certain. But nobody deserves to die more than anyone else and every death is sad. But the death of a young person in the prime of life is particuarly tragic, no matter the cause of death or what was preventable or not about it.</p>
<p>This thread reminds me why I don’t log on to CC so much anymore.
Also, Tour guide and Barrons, I will no longer read your posts on other threads, because the utter lack of civility you have displayed.</p>
<p>This was a tragic accident, and many who are now in pain, losing a friend or loved one, have my sympathy for the grief they are now feeling.</p>
<p>Moderators close this thread</p>
<p>Barrons, I hope you are a daily jogging vegetarian…somehow I suspect not so lets work with a possibility: </p>
<p>If you keel over with a coronary, diabetes or one of endless illnesses due to lifestyle, do you anticipate your like-minded colleagues to say at your funeral “too bad, so sad-- the fool brought it on himself…”</p>
<p>I hope not.</p>
<p>How I managed to avoid this thread for so many days is a blessing.</p>
<p>Working with hospice patients, I would say a substantial majority of those we serve are dying from some sort of self-inflicted illness… for some it’s taken many more decades of a certain lifestyle and lifestyle choices to catch up with them, and others, for reasons unknown, it catches up with them earlier. </p>
<p>I can’t tell you how many cancer patients I’ve been with who feel enormous guilt and regret for smoking, which has most likely led to their illness. My job is to have compassion for them, as they beat themselves up every minute of every day they have left, instead of focusing on the time they have left. </p>
<p>God did not make us perfect; we have free will to make choices in many areas of our lives. Some lead to tragic outcomes, and for most of us, we are lucky, unlike this poor young man. Godspeed to him and his family.</p>
<p>Thank you teriwtt for your post on this thread. As someone who deals in your job with those who are dying for various reasons, you fully understand the need for compassion and sympathy, no matter the cause of death or if the death is in any way related to choices that someone has made.</p>
<p>No problem soozie. </p>
<p>I’d like to add another scenario to this, to show how tricky it can get ‘judging’ choices people make. There are many people who loathe going to the doctor. They avoid it at all costs. Don’t want to be told they are borderline diabetic, have high blood pressure, or that the pain in their gut needs to be further explored. So they don’t go, and by the time some sort of acute emergency arises, some disease has taken over most of their body, or there is some irreparable organ damage.</p>
<p>But these people made a choice. One many of us might not make, and would discourage our own family members from making. This doesn’t mean that their death is not then tragic and we needn’t offer compassion and non-judgmental support for their families.</p>
<p>Teriwtt, exactly. I believe most members posting on this thread feel likewise. I feel sorry for those without this kind of compassion and I only wish nothing happens to their loved ones and when it does happen, that they will welome the support and sympathy of people like those on this thread.</p>
<p><<i hope=“” the=“” moderators=“” will=“” lock=“” this=“” thread,=“” since=“” some=“” of=“” posts=“” are=“” hurtful=“” to=“” friends=“” deceased=“” and,=“” frankly,=“” simply=“” shocking=“” me.=“”>></i></p><i hope=“” the=“” moderators=“” will=“” lock=“” this=“” thread,=“” since=“” some=“” of=“” posts=“” are=“” hurtful=“” to=“” friends=“” deceased=“” and,=“” frankly,=“” simply=“” shocking=“” me.=“”>
<p>While I completely understand where you are coming from, MOWC, it shouldn’t be up to the moderators to be the mommies and daddies. We ARE the mommies and daddies. We should try acting like it. Most of us, thankfully, do. Others have apparently grown so accustomed to the standards of talk radio that seem to have pervaded our society in recent decades that they see nothing wrong with producing a constant flow of vicious statements and character assassination. I see it in the opinion columns of our local papers every day.</p>
<p>BTW, I must say that I get SO tired of people blaming illnesses solely on “lifestyle” choices. Yes, that does have some bearing on the risk of developing some diseases: it would be foolish to claim otherwise. But I can point you to the slim, athletic, energetic men I know who developed adult-onset diabetes–one of whom died of it. (His morbidly obese, immobile older sister lives on years later, I might add.) As far as I’m concerned, the behavior of casting about for “reasons” why people become ill is whistling in the dark, pure and simple. If there is a “reason” why that person became ill, why disaster struck them, then it won’t happen to me. Yeah, right.</p>
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<p>10 minutes after reading this thread, I stumbled over this article talking about how it’s a natural human reaction to blame the victim. The article concludes “This is known as the Just World Hypothesis, but it’s really about how we tend to rationalize injustices away, so that we can maintain our naive belief in a just world.” </p>
<p>[The</a> Frontal Cortex : Fraud and Justice](<a href=“http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2008/12/fraud_and_justice.php]The”>http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2008/12/fraud_and_justice.php)</p>
<p>I’m going to make my kids read this. And I’m going to keep a copy out for easy rereading.</p>
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<p>Amen. This doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try to minimize their risk, but that risk can never be zero.</p>
<p>slitheytove -</p>
<p>good article. Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Yes, excellent article and some interesting comments posted. One I found:</p>
<p>“My guess is that people who can empathize with others in bad straits are those who have found a way to make peace with their own vulnerability, while those who need most to blame victims are most threatened by their own need and vulnerability as well, and most likely to feel identified with others, as opposed to empathizing with them”.</p>
<p>Regarding lifestyle’s impact on health…I am NOT tired of hearing about the connection. Certainly, there are always examples of thin health conscious people who get sick. But the research is VERY compelling. I think it should be emphasized more - adopting healthy habits can make a huge difference. People are SO stressed, especially in these times. Meditation, good diet, exercise…these things are underrated. And drugs are overrated.<br>
That said, I don’t find it difficult to find compassion for those who are sick - even if it’s related to lifestyle choices. Or people who die an untimely death. Many who have posted here clearly understand how vulnerable we ALL are.</p>
<p>There is no right or wrong, no smart or foolish. Is that what you want to hear?</p>
<p>Stop treating adults like infants. The people who choose to live below sea level in New Orleans, choose to live on the San Andreas Fault, or who climb up buildings are thinking human beings, who weigh the risks and rewards, and make conscious decisions. </p>
<p>If you’re a thrill-seeker, at least seek your thrills in a way that helps people (fire fighter, cop, soldier, etc.), rather than just for the sheer vanity or thrill of it. When I was in the Navy, I volunteered for the most dangerous assignments I could find. I did stuff that I never would have done just for the thrill or vanity of it, because we were up to our necks in the cold war and terrorism, and somebody NEEDED to do it. If your ego leads you down an optional and easily avoidable path, then you are creating your own danger.</p>
<p>^ What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Nobody is saying that there are not choices that are not more or less risky or foolish than others. They are saying that it is normal to be sad about the loss of a promising and wonderful young man in this world.</p>
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<p>Most on this thread want to simply hear compassion and empathy for the deceased and their family. The point being, in this context, your expressed judgement about the deservedness of some deaths is misplaced and hugely insensitive.</p>
<p>^^^^Amen!!</p>
<p>“Whenever one is accused of being insensitive, it is because nobody can accuse one of being wrong.” --Schopenhauer (or maybe it was Uncle Buck)</p>