The article says that the informant was able to identify some of the women in the photos.
Penn State needs to be very careful about how they play this as the facts unfold. Depending on the details, it has the potential to be a real powder keg if it begins to reinforce an image to the public that the administration turns a blind eye to sex-related misconduct for as long as it can.
They need to get the facts, but they cannot appear to be passive from a PR standpoint. The alumni do not want to hear another 5 years of sexual misconduct Penn State jokes. They are just starting to work free of the last round.
^ Oh, you’re right, that’s where Sandusky was, right?
Is it just me or have fraternities been doing some pretty stupid stuff lately? There was the one that wrecked the ski resort, then the OU one with the racist slurs, and now this. I’m totally seeing the benefits of Greek life and its good effect on society.
Further proof that fraternities have an unambiguously pernicious effect on college life.
I have been waiting with bated breath to see how long it would take before Thon was mentioned. The problem with raising it is the whole notion of moral self-licensing (or moral licensing). http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~monin/papers/Merritt,%20Effron%20%26%20Monin%202010%20Compass%20on%20Moral%20Licensing.pdf
Stripped of all of the psychobabble, what we have is a group of tight knit organizations that are capable of really good things and really bad things, depending on the nature of their leadership and the culture of the specific organization being discussed.
Agreed. My daughter goes to PSU. She has been to some frat parties and her dance group has socials with them. She knows which ones to avoid. ( She calls them the “gross” ones) The frat her dance group was paired up with THON did not participate in those types of behaviors.
Why? How is punishing innocent people going to serve anyone? And how exactly do you expect those innocent young men to prove what they DIDN’T know? The principle of innocent until proven guilty shouldn’t stop at the boundaries of a college campus. It’s a dangerous precedent and not one we should be teaching to our young people. If this is a group on FB, it should be relatively simple to find out who was a member. Those are the people who need to be held responsible.
Why? As Napoleon said when he shot the general, to encourage the others.
Do you seriously believe that the other members of the fraternity didn’t know about this? And if they did, even if they were not involved in the actual postings, they should have either reported the conduct to the authorities, or at the very least resigned.
There were 144 members (including alumni) of that private page, and it can’t be that hard to determine who started the page and who the “administrators” are. I’m sure the police know if any of those 144 were in leadership positions at the fraternity.
It’s not clear if the whistle-blower is able to identify the victim who forced the original incarnation of the page to be shut down.
Regardless of how sure any of us are, the uncomfortable reality of law requires more than a screenshot of a page. And if simply joining a Facebook event or group constitutes proof of an actionable crime, then law enforcement needs more personnel. Local police are investigating their choices. The university is as well. As for being a bystander, that too is probably not a chargeable offense in this particular case. Failure to act as a crime is, I think, a rare charge.
I don’t at all, at all, disagree this is abhorrent. Disgusting. Unacceptable. I’m just not feeling optimistic that there are legal outcomes that match our (completely warranted) moral outrage.
Again, you don’t have to prove a person is guilty of a crime in order to expel him.
I agree that it is unlikely that they didn’t know. But you think they should be expelled, even if they didn’t join the FB group? Should all kids who know some other student has broken the law or done something repugnant be expelled if they don’t report it? Should all kids who do break the law or do something repugnant be summarily expelled? Is there no place for suspension, education, and targeted community service that aids in that education?
I think that their national should shut down the chapter and the university should de-recognize them as a student organization, just as in the OU case. I gather that the house is not owned by PSU (or on campus?) so they can’t actually close it? It will be interesting to see whether the sensibilities of women are considered as important as the sensibilities of black men…
I cannot fathom the mind of a person who would do this to another human being. I realize that girls engage in sexting, that they have probably seen Girls Gone Wild ads on the tv, etc, etc, but come on! How can you face someone when you know you’ve exploited them in this way? It’s beyond being a peeping tom.
I’m slightly more optimistic, @greenbutton. As the story gets picked up by more and more news outlets (it’s the no. 5 most-viewed story on the New York Times website at the moment, where it sits on the front page), the pressure will be on PSU’s administration and the local police to come down hard on as many offenders as possible.
And I’m no lawyer, but it seems from reading this that Facebook will cooperate with law enforcement:
“But you think they should be expelled, even if they didn’t join the FB group? Should all kids who know some other student has broken the law or done something repugnant be expelled if they don’t report it? Should all kids who do break the law or do something repugnant be summarily expelled? Is there no place for suspension, education, and targeted community service that aids in that education?”
Not every law and every repugnant thing. But unless the reports are completely wrong, this stuff was deeply embedded in the organizational culture of the fraternity. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a rape culture warrior, but in this casse we need to send the strongest possible message that being associated with this kind of behavior will never be tolerated and is dangerous to your own well-being. Continuing to be a member of this fraternity comes under the rubric of the Super Chicken rule: you knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.
PSU does not own the house, nor the property it sits on (someone upthread asked).
As always, as is the case it seems on every campus, there will be lots of talking and aware-ness-ing, and then things will revert to past behavior. Alum are particularly insistent that the drinking/misdemeanor behavior continue – when IFC curtailed “socials” the outcry from those who finance the frats was tremendous. So let’s not pretend this is just stupid kids. It involves a depressing number of stupid adults.
I say revoke the charter, demolish the house, print the names. Make this behavior radioactive.
I think that expelling everyone who joined the group, without regard to their level of participation, is non-productive and in some cases bound to be unjust. I think that expelling everyone who knew about it but didn’t participate–assuming that there are such people–is grossly unjust.
This “kill them all and let the Lord sort them out” approach is not something I can aver agree with.
I think that the national closing the chapter and the PSU IFC or whomever has the right to do it de-recognizing them is appropriate. Lots of suspensions, probations, etc, with stringent and specifically-tailored terms, most likely appropriate also.
Knowing about it and not doing anything to stop it is just as bad. Just as bad. We teach elementary children that it’s not enough to not be a bully – you have to not be a bystander. College students are capable of more. No 20-something man I know (and I know a lot of 'em) would just accept this behavior. I want to send the message that pleading ignorance or lack of physical involvement is not enough. It’s not enough.
Then let’s shut Penn State down altogether. They’ve had a chance to clean up their act, haven’t they? Apparently, they haven’t learned anything in the last 3 years, so let’s make them an example to the other 2,999 colleges in the U.S.
^ That’s not even equivalent. Of course there are new students here now who had nothing to do with the first scandal. This new scandal happened NOW, so people in that frat NOW are most likely involved.