The culture at Penn state is not heavily Greek.
Penn state is one of the largest Greek communities in the nation with over 8,000 individuals Greek per CNN.com
17 per cent of students. Perhaps you are forgetting how huge some of the Big Ten schools are?
It is still one of the largest Greek communities in the nation.
Yes well I doubt that 80 percent of penn state students need their “culture changed” because of of 17 percent and that 17 percent includes sororities and perhaps even frats like Triangle. These threads tend to devolve into generalizations but really…
Title - At Penn State, critics claim, there’s no handle on hazing
“Penn State has one of the largest Greek communities in the nation. With 8,000 students members of fraternity and sorority life, Greek life is woven into the fabric of the Nittany Lion experience.”
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/us/penn-state-fraternities-hazing-alcohol/index.html
I am speaking of the culture of denial from administration not only in the Fraternity case but the Sandusky molestation cases which as of Friday they put Joe Paterno’s son Jay on the Board of Trustees. Two months after the previous administration is found guilty the Frat situation explodes and the admin is in denial. Two months after the previous administration is found guilty they want to place Paterno’s statue back up…that is the reason for the need of a cultural change.
“However, this incident was totally inexcusable and showed a lack of basic humanity.”
Alcohol in enough quantity can impair-to-disable the most human parts of the brain. Many of these guys could have been running mostly on the brain stem, which is the most animalistic brain structure. Add in alcohol induced stupidity, panic, confusion and mob psychology, you’d be amazed what people can do.
I haven’t read all the details. But I’m guessing there was no “sober monitor” present, which many schools require at frat events. A sober, vocal and decisive bro or two would likely have been more than adequate to disrupt this horribly sad tale and change the behavior of the “monsters” in the moment.
It is actually quite dangerous to think that stuff like this happens just because of some bad/evil/monster apples. First, because it is incorrect. Second, because we have no test for identifying the bad/evil/monster apples. Third, because your chances of changing an evil person (even if you can identify him) into a good one are miniscule.
The voluntary excessive drunken-ness of the so-called “monsters” is no legal excuse. Those guys are likely going to be convicted of some level of crimes. But I really doubt this happens if the BACs were half or less what they actually were.
" ^^the culture at PSU needs to change. "
This…
Having a step daughter who attended ( and lived within eyesight of this particular frat house ) , I can honestly say that I have never seen a school with more public drunkeness as PSU. Husband and I were there during spring graduation a year ago, and mistakenly stayed at a hotel right in the middle of some really rowdy frat houses, one of which was the one in the controversy.
Really out of control and no security / police in sight. Everyone seemed to turn a blind eye to it and just take it in stride.
Two of of other daughters attended ( or still attend ) large schools with no shortage of partying , but not even close to being as *in your face * as PSU.
Lovely campus that clearly provides a solid education , but the cult-y atmosphere and lack of accountability for the actions of their frats needs to be addressed
WRONG!!!
The only victims here was Piazza and to a lesser extent, the brother who wanted to call 911 early on and ended up being browbeaten and assaulted into silence by other brothers who were focused on covering up what happened.
Everyone else in that fraternity was either the perpetrator(by organizing the effective hazing and providing the drinks) and/or bystanders.
And the leaders and those who joined in attempting to browbeat the only brother who voiced the need to do the right thing in a timely manner have the lion’s share of the responsibility for what transpired.
To say otherwise is to effectively allow them to abscond on their responsibilities for this crime by arguing “OOpsie, boys will be boys and do stupid things so we shouldn’t hold them responsible/accountable for their actions…including criminal ones…”*
If they/their defense attempts to use that as an actual defense, that further underscores how they are living proof that at least one fraternity doesn’t impart good character building or leadership skills.
- This is also a serious insult to the many young adults who are responsible and do exercise good sense in their lives.
Especially to numerous folks like the college classmate who graduated a few classes ahead of me from our college with high honors at 17 without getting himself into such messes or my father who started college at 16 in his country of origin, finished at 20 with high honors, and then started his mandatory military service obligation right afterwards as a conscripted infantry Second Lieutenant in charge of a platoon(~40-50 men) of conscript soldiers the same age/older than himself and NCOs who were much older grizzled war veterans…some of whom were old enough to be his father, and completed his service honorably at 22.
Penn State is the home of the worst college molestation crime(s) in history, the home of one of the worst(if not the worst) fraternity crimes in history and the culture doesn’t need to change? That is the definition of denial and looking the other way.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/us/pennsylvania-frat-death-charges/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/06/us/penn-state-alleged-hazing-cnntv/index.html
The Sandusky case has absolutely nothing to do with the students, let alone the current ones, who were in middle or high school when it occurred.*
The administration =/= the students =/= the town. There is not one unifying culture among all of them.
- When it broke, rather. Weren't born when it started.
I agree with you regarding the students. The molestation took place from the 1970’s - 2010. The culture still needs to change. The previous admin was sentenced just 2 months ago. They put Jay Paterno on the Board of Trustees, and deny liability in the frat case. Culture needs to change.How do you think the victims and their families feel about Jay Paterno being appointed to the Board of Trustees?
From the CNN report-
Two lawsuits against Penn State allege that university officials failed to respond appropriately to persistent problems with hazing and alcohol use at its fraternities. The plaintiffs claimed pledges were forced to drink excessive and dangerous amounts of alcohol. One alleges fraternity brothers burned pledges with hot wax, held a gun to their heads, and forced them to kill animals. And that a Penn State employee – a resident assistant – knew about it, but didn’t report it.In one case, a member of the fraternity documented the hazing and reported it to the school, but he says he was ignored.
Two years ago, in March 2015, Barron promised to take a hard look at Greek life at Penn State.
It came after then-freshman James Vivenzio described hazing he says he endured at Kappa Delta Rho fraternity.
“Drinking until you were vomiting, they were shoving alcohol down your throat all the time,” Vivenzio told CNN. Pledges would have to stand around a trash can, he alleged, drink until they vomited, and then pass the bottle. Later, he said, they’d have “to do push-ups, sit-ups in your own vomit.”
Vivenzio describes being forced, along with his pledge class, to gather ingredients for, and then drink, a mixture of “the most disgusting things you can think of.”
“Urine, vomit, and kind of anything they could find. Just smelling it would make you throw up. It was pretty bad,” he said.Vivenzio says he reported being hazed to Penn State twice before going to the police and filling a civil lawsuit.
First, he says, he tried to report it anonymously in the fall of 2013 while he was still a pledge through the hotline that Penn State told freshmen about during their orientation.
No changes were made, he said, so Vivenzio began to document everything he could: alleged beatings, a private Facebook page, the text messages to pledges that read, “destroying ur lives, dignity and removing ur f-ing souls.”
Vivenzio says, after three months, he decided he could no longer take it. He left school, went back to his parents’ home in Virginia and called Penn State to report what he had documented.
The director of the Office of Student Conduct, Danny Shaha, drove from State College, Penn State’s main campus, to the Vivenzio home. With his parents, Vivenzio sat at the kitchen table and handed Shaha a stack of documents.
“And we showed him all this and I pledged my help. I was like ‘I want this to change,’” Vivenzio said.
Vivenzio says he heard nothing from Penn State for a nearly a year. In the meantime, because the fraternity hadn’t removed Vivenzio from a private Facebook group or the group text messages, Vivenzio said he could see that hazing continued. Vivenzio said it was not uncommon to see pledges talking about being “force fed liquor.” Or messages like “Let’s haze.”
This a bit old now but it’s worth a listen if you haven’t heard it before. From what I gather, the culture on campus hasn’t changed too much.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/396/1-party-school
"Many of these guys could have been running mostly on the brain stem, which is the most animalistic brain structure. "
I feel like we’re revisiting territory already covered on this thread. Are people reading from the beginning?
These guys weren’t so drunk that they couldn’t google medical questions on their cell phones. As well as making attempts to cover their tracks.
Re: the post above - how are we raising young males that put up with this crap? Blows my mind.
I hate when people bring up the Sandusky case. What does the case have to do with the Hazing? Oh I know, We hate Penn State and we should bring down the university. Like seriously, enough with the Case.
You must be a Penn State student. 
I am sure you hate it when they bring up the the case. Instead of moving forward, they place Jay Paterno on the Board of Trustees…The same Board of Trustees that fired Joe Paterno in 2011. So…who keeps bringing it up? PSU does…they had a chance to move forward but put Jay in power last Friday. It is the culture of denial. For the record, I do not hate PSU. My tax dollars help support it and I expect more from my Flagship. Change the culture of looking the other way. This kid could have been saved. The truth hurts and learning from the past is the only way to move forward…not repeating it.
@doschicos Actually I’m not, unfortunately. I’m a prospective transfer student who will be sending his college transcript after my finals are done. This Hazing incident isn’t stopping me from applying to Penn State. I could have withdrawn my application, but I didn’t.
He’s not, but I am, and I’m tired of it too. I’m tired of “Pedo State” being an acceptable taunt at football games. I’m tired of being told there’s something wrong with the university, and by extension the students, and by extension me, because of something that happened years before I had ever applied.
Likewise, I’m tired of the Paterno-themed restaurants in town, and the way the administration keeps ensuring it won’t die, and the alumni throwing hissy fits as if this is a football program alone and not a university.
^Seems like if the University administration addressed the latter, the former would dissipate somewhat, right?