@bodangles No one said there is anything wrong with you. You just happened to have gone to a school that let a man molest boys in the name of protecting their image. That’s not your fault.
Yes, we all agree. The university administration has to change. But if it changes, people will still find ways to bring down Penn State due to the case.
It seems people love to bring back old events that happened.
You are missing the point. PSU put the same family that acted as the gatekeeper of information in the case back in power with the appointment of Jay. PSU did this…nobody else…PSU. Possibly the worst desicion they could have made if they wanted to move forward from the case.
They did this on May 5th…the same day the frat tragedy exploded on the national scene…so who is to blame?
People may disagree with me or even dislike me for saying these things but they should really target the PSU admin for answers.
@CaliCash Do people who go to Stanford say “Oh, you’re going to the school that rape a girl and the guy got free after 6-months”?
@bester can you give us an idea of what informs your views? Are you a parent, a student, an employee, an area resident, an alum?
Just want to correct your misconception —(I keep repeating this point, here it is again) — the board of trustees is a very large group, some appointed by their position (the Pa governor, for example) and most elected by alumni. Most of the trustees do not get to vote on policy issues. Jay was not appointed.
If you’ve been to college, you’ve seen a similar process where the majority of alum throw out their ballot, and ones highly spun up about something tend to inordinately skew the results. But Jay Paterno is a lifelong resident, a PSU grad, and has the same right as other alum to run for trustee. He is guilty of nothing.
Sorry for the typos. It has been a long day, full of strangers calling in to talk shows, commenting on media, calling our workplaces to tell us we’re all going to hell for living in the same town as, or working for, Penn State. from the inside, it feels somewhat unfair, even if from the outside it makes people feel better.
“There’s something wrong with that place / the culture of that school” has been said verbatim on this thread and on the other one created in the Penn State forum. The students are part of the place and the culture. If posters mean the administration, that applies to Sandusky, sure. But not really the current case – the administration has barely had a chance to react to it yet, beyond placing extra sanctions on Greek life, which I think most would agree is a positive step to take. So if there’s something wrong with the school regarding the most recent case, then posters mean the students.
Every so often our subreddit gets invaded by people calling us child molesters. Not the administration – us, the students. Even the ones who don’t party (or in my case, don’t party so much that they’re in the book club, for Pete’s sake) are blamed for this crap over and over again.
(The Sandusky taunts as far as attacking the students goes seem to be using a tragedy for cheap sports-related trash talk, which is horrific in itself. But it happens.)
“Do people who go to Stanford say “Oh, you’re going to the school that rape a girl and the guy got free after 6-months”?”
Some people probably do but it is apples and oranges. The Stanford administration didn’t cover it up and Stanford didn’t set his punishment (or lack thereof). A court of law did.
Greenbutton…I am a resident of the state. Long Time fan(until I took my daughter to a game in the fall of 2015 and saw mobs of people hugging a Joe Pa cut out all the way down the street). They were changing g and singing. It was a gross display of disrespect to the victims and their families. Gross.
I agree that the Sandusky taunts by opposing fans is gross as well. No place for that.
Maybe these chants would stop if they stopped worshipping the cut outs and stopped placing Paterno’s in power?
Jay Paterno said his dad was innocent even tho the courts have stated otherwise. How did Jay get placed into power if he was not appointed? Who voted? Who made the decision?
They put another Paterno who still denies guilt into power. He was on the coaching staff, he was Joe’s son…he likely knew something.
The Fraternity tragedy has sparked discussion of the need for a change in the culture of denial.
I expect more from PSU. Not to repeat the recent errors of the past. As a resident that supports the school, I have every right to hold the standard high after what has happened at this institution of higher learning.
The Stanford case did not go on for 25 years either.
@Wisteria100, —" Vivenzio told CNN. Pledges would have to stand around a trash can, he alleged, drink until they vomited, and then pass the bottle. Later, he said, they’d have “to do push-ups, sit-ups in your own vomit.”
Vivenzio describes being forced, along with his pledge class, to gather ingredients for, and then drink, a mixture of “the most disgusting things you can think of.”
“Urine, vomit, and kind of anything they could find. Just smelling it would make you throw up. It was pretty bad,”
Again, if this is true and I am not disputing these statements, I just want to know why in hell anyone would ever subject themselves to this type of treatment. Of course, kids do this, never thinking that they will die from it, but then since they subject themselves to this particular torture, why is it that we think that the boys doing the instigating are anymore intelligent. If you don’t care enough about yourself and your body to treat yourself with respect. Why do you think anyone else will? Again, it has to start with the individual who takes that drink!
No one forces you to join these frats. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you join. So this is voluntary, which also means that you can walk away at any point. But they don’t and then horrific events like this happen.
Philbegas, this could have all been avoided if he didn’t join the frat too. If he said “No more” after the 3rd or 4th drink. But instead he continues to drink.
I just think there were so many bad choices that went into this whole situation. So many times that he or some of the other brothers could have said, “No More.” But NO ONE DOES. Not just the Frat brothers but not Piazza either. Everyone in that house is at fault. Even the kid who tried to get him help, eventually ceases to try. He could have left the Frat and called for help. But he doesn’t either. There’s just so many times, that this could have been avoided but instead everyone continues down this terrible terrible path of wrong choices.
Calicash- Trust me I’m horrified by this outcome, I just think that we have to see it for what it is…very terrible choices that led to 18 young men being charged with man-slaughter and one dead. Honestly, it just doesn’t get worse than those results!
That’s a cop-out and reminds me of an old saying "If everyone’s responsible, then no one’s responsible. "
That line of thinking will just perpetuate the larger subculture/issues behind incidents like these as “business as usual”.
Did anyone posting on here go to a college that hasn’t had some horrible awful drunken incident of hazing or sexual assault or the like that occurred on your campus?
There are very few schools that could withstand such a google search.
What happened here was a mass hazing of new pledges organized by a fraternity’s leadership and older brothers in a background of a campus culture where this has not only seemingly been long tolerated by the admins with a wink and a nod, but even encouraged by alums who were former fraternity members
It’s not an isolated incident or a one-off incident…especially considering this required a large amount of pre-planning and appealing to long-established traditions going back decades…if not a century and change.
The only unique aspect of this case is the level of depraved indifference and CYA mentality at best demonstrated from the fraternity leaders and older “brothers” whose behavior clearly prioritized covering up what happened…and doing so to the point they’ve browbeatened and even physically assaulted one brother who urged them to call 911 early on when it could have made a difference.
Lion’s share of responsibility goes to the fraternity leadership and older brothers who followed along in the attempted coverup/avoiding calling for help for several critical hours followed by the university for recognizing this fraternity.
Blaming Piazza by saying he didn’t have to join is not only victim blaming, it’s a red herring meant to divert attention from examining the roots of the issue…such as:
Why does Penn State allow organizations which perpetuated dangerous/lethal hazing/drinking practices on new pledges to be recognized and thus, legitimized by the U in the first place?
@Dungareedoll: arguing that Timothy Piazza could have said “no” doesn’t get you to where I think you want to be. To a large extent the most serious charge of involuntary manslaughter hinges on the actions of the fraternity brothers after Piazza was already intoxicated.
While the hazing activity involving excessive amounts of alcohol will certainly be part of the case, it is their neglect in providing aid while he was dying in front of them that will be central. The prosecution has to prove that the defendants acted with “reckless disregard for human life” and “knew or should have known” that his life was in danger. In my own opinion this will not be difficult to prove.
I would really urge you to read pages 40 -48 of the Presentment to the Grand Jury where the contents of the video are presented. It is truly beyond belief and documents fraternity brothers actually contributing to his injuries. Further, take a look at pages 56-62 which documents the physical condition of Timothy Piazza’s body after doctors examined him at Hershey Medical Center. If you have a son it will not be easy reading.
The Presentment was linked upthread but I will link it here again:
Ihttps://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=3705264-PSU-Hazing-FINAL-Charges-and-Presentment
I’m not a parent but rather an engineering student and an active member of a fraternity. What happened at Penn State is absolutely horrifying. In fact it’s rather disgusting that the brothers of Beta Theta Pi thought it was remotely ok to even hold events that would put Piazza and other brothers in that situation. They absolutely should be punished as allowed by law. But in defense of the Greek system I also believe it is unfair to judge the rest of the Greek community. Granted, I admit the stereotypes of Greeks isn’t necessarily the best especially with all the bad press. But most houses aren’t like Beta in PSU. Most are just normal guys and girls in college. We study hard and try to build connections for our future while having a chance to attend social events. Sometimes going greek means buying friends but I truly enjoy being around all 100+ brothers in my house even if I wasn’t an active and many of my friends in Greek life truly enjoy their sisters and brothers. There are a lot of ways Greek Life can improve and it’s a work in progress. Events like this shouldn’t happen, and it’s up to those in Greek life to take a stand against poor decisions. Again condolences to the Piazza family. No parent should have to bury their child.
Actually, it’s NOT that simple. The whole point of pledging it to create a situation where saying “no” is impossible. Group psychology is powerful and more so for 18 year olds arriving on a big campus where it’s hard to make friends and where they’re alternatively cajoled and humiliated, confusing them as to what it means to “fit in”. If it were as easy as saying “no” when faced with group pressure, then we wouldn’t have so many problems. A complex problem is never solved by a simple solution (or it’d be “a simple problem”.) Addressing the mechanisms of pledging and group psychology is the only way for such tragedies to stop.
If you believe young people cannot be reliably counted upon to successfully resist peer pressure to engage in self-harm that could even result in their own death, then what’s to stop us from blaming the parents while we’re at it? Put some blame on an upbringing without principles and training in doing the right thing no matter what. When are parents going to start forbidding their immature kids from joining these organizations? Probably never! Parents are a huge part of the problem too. After all, I don’t see many of them ever stand up to the popularity game in high school, which is likely one reason why their children never learn to assert themselves either. How many times have I heard parents justify dangerous, permissive decisions with excuses like “I just don’t want him to feel left out. All his buddies are doing it.” Or “You know how catty girls are, I just can’t tell her she can’t go to that party.”
@greenbutton …Jay Paterno was in fact elected to the Board of Trustees.Per ESPN…the culture has not changed.
The deeper question is why do college students feel the need to be such hedonists? Is it a sense of entitlement? Boredom? Lack of a moral compass?