That’s precisely because when most are sober, the inhibitions in place prevent them from acting in ways which reveal aspects which are socially and/or legally unacceptable in a given society.
Once those inhibitions come off, those who are naturally inclined towards illegal and/or morally dubious/heinous actions will be much more likely to reveal their true character that’s often hidden when sober.
Those who aren’t naturally inclined that way won’t behave in such a manner.
@GnocchiB It prevents them from sleeping on their back and choking (drowning) in their own vomit.
One of my children went to a college where every frat pledge dropped. Hazing? The college needs to ask questions before they support the frat.
I just read the presentment (listing out all the evidence leading to the decision to charge). I’m a lawyer - it is STILL horrifying. In NO way was this a case of – our frat bro got drunk, we thought he would sleep it off and be fine by morning. And it was NOT the case that just 1 brother knew he was in trouble and bc he was a pledge/new brother, they ignored him.
He ran the “gauntlet” - hazing drinking game. Fell down the basement steps and was not conscious. This is around 10 pm. They bring him upstairs and lay him on the couch. They take his shirt off at some point – HUGE bruise on his abdomen/chest (which is visible from a freaking wall mounted security camera on the other side of the room); assume that’s where his spleen ruptured (but I’m not a dr. so don’t know). They DID know he was in trouble. There are phone records of them googling re head injuries; blood alcohol levels etc. They do that “test” on him where you lift the arm up and see if it smacks the face; they smack him on the stomach to wake him up – which drs. later say likely made the spleen injury worse. Somewhere around 3 am - he gets up (not totally conscious) and I think tries to leave - falls 3-4 more times on a stone floor; into a railing; into a door. Get this – the FINE humans that these Penn State parents (NOT ALL PSU PARENTS, just these ones) have raised - 2 of them come downstairs around 5 am for a drink of water (separately) - see him lying in the foyer shirtless - and STEP OVER HIM to go to the kitchen. Then he gets up again, falls down the basement stairs a 2nd time, then is found around 9 am and after much hemming and hawing waiting for the “frat president” – the medical expert that he is at age 21 – to make decision, an ambulance is called.
And right after he’s taken away there are texts where the frat prez is talking about his responsibility in this AND acknowledging that the kid was breathing differently and had noticeably rigid limbs and was incredibly pale. And there’s all kinds of old texts where the prez is saying to his pledge planning bros – if anything happens to any pledge, we’re effed.
Doctors open him up and see the spleen in shattered and something like 80% of the body’s blood volume has pooled in that area (I assume bc of the injury?). To say nothing about the fact that his brain was so swollen that it wasn’t sending proper signals to the lungs.
I hope a LOT OF these kids go to jail for a LONG time – not Stanford rapist style. Heck I went to college in Pa. (not Penn State) – I believe even back then the “rule” was – if someone was in trouble like that, you could drop them off at the ER and run away, no questions asked but at least the person would get help.
To think if this had been handled without a 15 hr delays – his parents would have a son who had a spleen removal/repair and a concussion.
Penn State has issues – always say the same – good school with decent programs esp in business and engineering. and yet something about that place isn’t right. This stuff happens with more significant frequency and in more extreme ways that other big party schools. I mean Sandusky was an anomaly – I’ll give you that. But not 2 yrs ago they had some other extreme drinking frat shut downs PLUS one that made national press bc they were passing around pics of nude/unconscious female students. Now this.
There’s something about the culture of this school which makes kids feel like they can do what they want, cover it up, and nothing will be found or if it is, it’ll be a slap on the wrist. These things happen, administrators do just enough wrist slapping to make it clear how “serious” they are, there’s a massive PR campaign where they tout how much money they are raising for THON or how they will win another Big 10 football championship – and all is forgotten in that distraction. I’m sure electing Jay Paterno (son of the famed football coach at the helm but had noooo idea what was happening in his own locker room even when told by a grad assistant coach to the Board today will help matters – they’ll go back to “protect the school’s reputation first.”
PennLive has several related stories.
http://www.pennlive.com/#/0
Meanwhile Joe Paterno’s son was just elected to the Penn State Board of Trustees. This will ensure that the Sandusky affair will continue to haunt the university.
“It prevents them from sleeping on their back and choking (drowning) in their own vomit.”
STUPID idea. If you are passed out, it won’t help of course.
I wish those articles had listed the names of every one of those 18 fraternity members (I won’t call them “brothers” because brothers wouldn’t act that way).
Earlier in the week I read the story about the Baylor fraternity Cinco de Drinko BS and now this. Remind me what the benefits of greek life are supposed to be again?!? When will colleges realize the liabilities aren’t worth any perceived benefits (don’t tout fundraising activities because colleges without greek life have plenty of philanthropic activity) and ban greek life from campus.
My middle son visited Penn State a couple of years ago for a college related competition. At the time, he told me that he was uncomfortable with the amount of drinking that went on. He was 21 at the time and did/does drink but did not while there because he was one of the older students; he actually left a room where under-aged kids were drinking (kids from a number of schools) and went back to his room. When he and I discussed this story, I told him that several people had suggested/encouraged Techson17 to apply to Penn State because it has a good theater department. He looked at me, horrified, and said: “Don’t send my baby brother to that place. It has great ice cream but no…”
I told my sons that if I was the mother of one of those 18 young men arrested, I would be totally ashamed. My sons agreed with me.
I feel badly for the young man who wanted to call for help but was assaulted and dismissed. I wish that he had had the courage to follow through and call immediately. He could have saved 20 lives, one literally and the rest figuratively. I am sure he will feel guilt for the rest of his life - I am not so sure that the rest of the seemingly sociopathic frat bros will.
Yes, many of us do stupid things while we’re drunk. Text people we shouldn’t, be louder than we should, maybe topple over a few times.
The vast, vast, VAST majority of us don’t get drunk enough to completely ignore the fact that another human being is dying.
Furthermore, they had it together enough to do this:
which indicates to me that they could’ve picked up the phone to call 911 and probably save this kid’s life. More likely, they didn’t want this dying kid to inconvenience their party time.
No, “people do stupid things when they’re drunk” doesn’t cut it as any sort of explanation of why these individuals were so depraved.
The local paper does name all of the students involved as part of the timeline, right down to the who did what to whom part. Centre Daily Times.
Jay Paterno chose to run, and alumni chose to elect him to a board that has something like 72 members, only a small portion (and not his portion) vote on actual policy. The Sandusky case will haunt Penn State forever, regardless. Which is as it should be.
And if students think they are entitled to some inviolate raucous freshman experience, or e full and insulated college life – where do you suppose they got that idea, since they arrive on campus with it? Why do you suppose old-fashioned schools can’t keep up with national trends of fancy dorms, high end food, marquee sports and laureate professors? Parents are paying a fortune, and they want to see bells and whistles and their snowflake is the best snowflake. Clearly Penn State has problems, no question. But it is not unique or alone. And again, the vast majority of the students are hardworking, responsible people with bright futures. Close the frats. Close them all.
PSU President statement:
http://news.psu.edu/story/467006/2017/05/05/administration/penn-state-presidents-statement-grand-jury-findings-related
This story isn’t about drunk kids being too inebriated to seek help for the pledge. It’s about them trying to cover their asses so they wouldn’t get in trouble. When you can google medical questions on your cell phone, you’re sober enough to call 911.
@doschicos It is all here, names are in the Presentment at the bottom:
I agree with them being monsters.
I don’t buy this excuse for a minute in terms of the actions of these 18 monsters. Fortunately, the college students I know are not capable of such disregard, regardless of the amount of alcohol consumed. These kids had no moral compass to begin with. I guess they were brothers in that regard only.
Besides, they were awfully straight when it came to trying to protect themselves. Awful, just awful.
Another shocking detail (among so many) is they pushed the one pledge that wanted to get Timothy help up against the wall and threatened him. Such a disturbing story.
And yet applications to Pen State will continue to rise.
^ And why not? Did Stanford applications go down because of Brock Turner?
@blueskies2day - plus from the presentment it is fairly clear that the “brothers” – who were googling head injuries; finding ways to cover their tracks etc. – were NOT as heavily drunk as the pledges/new brothers. The new brothers were forced to drink by the older brothers – the older ones could do what they wanted; I’m sure everyone was drunk but not everyone was drunk enough to have impaired judgment as they were able to google stuff, threaten the new brother who wanted to get help, and scoff at him that the matter was being handle by older bros who were kinesiology and physiology majors who knew better than him. Bc apparently being a sophomore in physiology = being an ER doctor.
To whoever upstream said that names should be released – they are totally out there in multiple articles. There are multiple articles stating the names of the 10 who have already been arraigned + their hometowns; I have to imagine the other 8 come out on Monday at their arraignments.
As a parent - if your son is one of the 18 - what do you even say?? You obviously assume that your son the frat bro does drink, but how do you reconcile that someone who supposedly raised to be a good man stepped over a “brother” – another kid – to go to the kitchen to get water. Despite seeing a kid who was ridiculously pale with labored breathing, a bruised torso, stiff limbs (which they know bc they tried to dress him so he’d look “better” to the doctors)??
@aj725 I don’t know if they were raised poorly or it is just are who they are - but I know kids that would never behave like this, it is not humanly possible for them to do so, but I’m guessing most of us likely know “that kid” from high school that we can see totally behaving this way. Seems they all got together in one frat house, poor judgement was likely their bonding trait. My guess is these were never model citizens anyway and it really isn’t that big of a surprise to those that know them.