Of course, I know nothing about these kids’ parents. But I know parents where I could easily imagine their kids being like this- but I don’t know their kids.
My best friends’ parents are part of a yacht club. I’ve spent a lot of time there over the last 10 years and I could see many, MANY of the people there raising kids that would just leave an individual to die. They drive drunk all the time from the yacht club but never pay a price because there are cops in the yacht club that get them off. Then they pay off most of their other problems.
They’re really not good people and I can easily imagine that they implicitly or explicitly raised their kids to put their own butts first… even if it meant the death of someone else.
I get what you all are saying. There are parents who explicitly tell their kids “look out for yourself first”; there are others who don’t say it - but the kid has seen the parents do that their whole lives, even if screwing over others, so they think that’s how they should be too. And then there are the parents who are just delusional when it comes to their kids – for lack of better words. I was thinking about Brock Turner’s dad who wrote a letter to the court – don’t know why – maybe to the sentencing judge? In it he went on and on about how much Brock has suffered because of this – he used to be a voracious eater who loved a good steak and dad was constantly buying snacks which Brock would inhale so fast that dad wouldn’t get any and now due to this unfortunate “incident” and how worried Brock his about his shattered Olympic dreams and prison, Brock isn’t hungry at all and bags of snacks go uneaten. All I could think was – this girl’s problem is that some guy put his d— in her while she was unconscious. Brock’s problem is – potato chips just don’t make him happy right now. And you’re really equating these two problems??
There may be some parents of the 18 PSU guys who are like that who will make statements about – oh it’s all in good fun and bc one kid couldn’t handle his liquor, my poor baby lost his summer internship offer for now reason, do you know how hurt he is bc he works sooo hard in school!!!
Parents who drink and for whom alcohol is a BIG part of their lives. I've seen grown adults get visibly excited to see an open bar at a wedding or other event. They aren't thinking, but they are MODELING this behavior for their children, who grow up thinking that excessive drinking and obsessing about alcohol is a sign of adulthood.
These same parents WANT their children -- sons, really -- to be "bros." Parents think it's cool. They want their sons to be cool.
Football. Show me a college that has a big, famous football team and I'll show you a college that has a systemic alcohol problem.
So, I’m curious about the security camera in the frat house. Thank goodness it was there to help put pieces of the puzzle together and too bad it didn’t encourage the frat members to do right by the student to try to save his life by calling 911 or from abstaining in the behavior that got the pledges so drunk to begin with.
Is it typical to have security cameras inside frat houses? Would this be a requirement by the insurance company or the national office of the fraternity?
It sounds like Piazza fell down the basement stairs twice: first at 22:45 at night and again in the morning around 7:18. I wonder if the 7:18 fall was the lethal one (independent of the spleen-rupturing fall at 22:45). .
I don’t understand why they didn’t call 911 sooner. If Penn State has amnesty, and they had called when someone initially thought he needed help, he would probably have been fine.
My guess is they knew they would be in some kind of trouble regardless. There are many references in the articles linked that no drinking was allowed in the fraternity, as evidenced by this statement from the NBC News article: “members of the fraternity testified to a grand jury that Beta was supposed to be a “dry” house, but alcohol was still consumed during its events.” The frat is actually off campus grounds.
@droppedit "It sounds like Piazza fell down the basement stairs twice: first at 22:45 at night and again in the morning around 7:18. I wonder if the 7:18 fall was the lethal one (independent of the spleen-rupturing fall at 22:45). "
I bet his parents lie awake and night and wonder the same thing. My heart breaks for them.
PSU fraternities are all located off campus, in huge houses owned by their national chapter. They are private property. Local ordinances have all the usual prohibitions but the State College police force is asmall town size. Every fall the town govt/police do a meet and greet, walking around town to engage withh the frats and apartments. This particular frat was one of the last physically located on campus – which had grown up around it over the years — but it was still privately owned.
Sororities do not have houses, they live together on designated floors of designated dorms.
PSU had put in place many guidelines for keeping your charter. IFC has been ignoring most of them and PSU’s main culpability lies in not keeping a closer eye – but as private homes, they are not legally able to visit and then expel students, for example. The legal case would lie on illegally obtained evidence unless they had a warrant. The frat was originally banned for 3 yrs while the investigation continued, and IFC expressed disappointment that they couldn’t handle it internally. Ha.
It’s not big football, it’s Big Money from any source. THON is now supporting 10 million dollar a year in cancer research. NIH and other funding sources are being cancelled (thanks GOP!). Frat alum are the most generous donors by a mile, true at most schools. But still, I say close them all.
Penn is in Philadelphia, and is a different school.
Also, the adult required to live in the house is an employee of the frat in this scenario. He was unaware of the events (WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT OF HIS JOB) and could not legally be charged with a crime. (it’s not a crime to do a crappy job at work) The University cannot fire him, because he was derelict in duties not under their employ. He is widely expected to “retire” early.
All of these loopholes are carefully developed between frats, towns, and colleges everywhere in order to keep everyone safe from lawsuits and charges and bad PR. How sad. Close them all.
@bodangles Well let’s see:
The Sandusky scandal and its cover up;
Former Penn State president Spanier and two of his top administrators convicted;
Refusal of alumni to let it rest until Paterno is returned to his pedestal, both literally and figuratively;
Highest instate tuition in the US;
Very limited financial aid even for instate students;
The current frat tragedy is only the latest albeit the most serious of incidents involving fraternities.
@TomSrOfBoston Is high tuition listed as a symptom or a reason behind whatever ails Penn State? Or are you listing reasons not to attend?
I wonder what separates Penn State from Ohio State, Michigan State, University of Alabama, and other large state schools. What is the root cause of the problems there, and is that root cause unique to PSU? Is it a weak Board? I don’t believe it is simply the desire to re-elevate Joe Paterno, though perhaps that is a symptom of something deeper.
PSU is not the only school with big time money-making sports, whether it’s football or basketball. So, I wonder what the difference is?
@VMT My knowledge of Penn State is from my nephew who graduated from Penn (not Penn State) and now lives in Harrisburg. He gets the impression that Joe Paterno was elevated to near sainthood, even to the point that a mural near campus showed him with a halo. He was 85 when he retired and died. There had been a statue of him and his football team on campus that was removed after the scandal broke, shades of fallen dictators. His son, Jay Paterno, was just elected to the PSU Board of Trustees. Prominent alumni are demanding that the statue be restored. This doesn’t sit well with current students who want all that to be in the past.
Penn State is also the most remote major university. It is 100 miles from Harrisburg, the nearest real city. 30,000 18-22 years olds in an isolated community is a different environment from the other schools you mention.
As for the high tuition/low financial aid why should that change as long as there is an increasing number of applicants who are willing to pay, think NYU.
my knowledge is based in living here for 30 years, but I am not a PSU grad. You are misinformed.
Paterno was popular, but not universally so. But yes, the football program has a fanatic following, like Alabama or NC basketball.( PSU athletes do attend classes and do get real grades.)The mural in town has about 75 local notables, and ones who have died all had halos at one point, but they were all painted over, as was Joe’s. The statue came down and will never be replaced. Even fundraisers to replace it with another statue downtown failed. Those prominent alumni are by far in the minority. Jay is one of a very very large group of Trustees, and only a smaller group vote on policy, as I mentioned upthread. As you stated, the student body has no interest in venerating a nasty past.
I would not say it is remote. THere’s plenty to do besides drink, which most of the students know. New York, Philadelphia. and DC are an easy bus ride, train ride, or drive for the weekend. National and international tours and speakers are here all the time.
As for funding, PA has the biggest disparity between public school funding of all kinds, across the state. Publics and private schools get very little and the state is currently running a billion-dollar deficit. No money means higher tuition.
I was wondering about the surveillance cameras as well. I was also wondering if any of the charges were for the assault on the other new pledge who wanted to call 911. I am guessing that this young man had his phone taken away from him and was otherwise afraid for himself, too.
There is probably drinking at all colleges (likely even BYU and Liberty, etc.) but not all colleges are “renowned” for their drinking cultures.
The same son who visited Penn State told me that hazing is forbidden at his college, as it is at all colleges. He wasn’t in a frat but he was in student government and they were supposed to oversee frat activities on campus. A couple of frats were banned in his time there for hazing, but nothing approaching this horror show.