But wouldn’t the whole troop do pushups together? Struggling as a team? Similar to the way a squad might do pushups in basic training together?
I don’t know, I’m a bit unsure of how I feel about this, since I didn’t know it existed until an hour ago. But I’m definitely against hazing as it takes place in fraternities.
^pushups are embarrassing because you’re talking about boys. They want to show virility through muscular strength especially in public (or hide the fact they’re unsure of said “muscular strength”) but due to different stages of development and levels of fitness, it can quickly be humiliating.
A Squad is, presumably, physically fit and can do push ups, and it’s still considered negatively.
I just watched the interviews with the deceased’s father, mother, and girlfriend, and I honestly couldn’t help feeling a bit of frustration at his father! I know it’s a really crappy situation because no matter what, he didn’t deserve to suffer the loss of his beloved son. But the way he talks about his son, about how he never had to have “the talk” about partying and alcohol and stuff just makes me wonder if something like this could have been prevented if maybe he had in fact had a proper discussion with his son about alcohol management. I mean he said he was on the DARE board which is in my view a bit of a joke, because abstinence only drug/alcohol education simply doesn’t work, and I feel like having that sort of influence in the household ends up with one of those typical situations where a kid doesn’t know how to manage themselves when they move into the real world.
@MYOS1634 You’re totally right, I should have been more cognizant of that factor. I know that I was always bad at doing pushups because even when I was in shape I was on the heavier side.
As a matter of fact, one of the hosts of “TODAY” where the interviews were being aired, said after the interviews “It’s better to have the conversation than not” and it was a stark contrast to the interview with the father.
I haven’t seen the interviews, but did the family really believe that the fraternity was dry and didn’t practice any hazing? I wonder if their son knew the truth about this in advance.
They said “Their son did the research and found a no alcohol fraternity” or something along those lines. This is coming from a father who apparently is themselves a PSU alumni. Ignorance is bliss, or at least it’s rumored to be but it certainly didn’t work out that way.
Sports teams have used “exercise” as a punishment forever. Take a lap, do pushups, suicides, whatever. I think it makes kids associate exercise with punishment which strikes me as a great way to turn kids off exercise.
Even if they knew there would be alcohol and hazing does not give these boys the right to throw him around like a rag doll and let him die. Why if it were your son? I think you would feel a little different. This is not just hazing. This is total disregard for human life.
I’m well aware of that, and I have commented extensively on previous pages about how I think at least a couple of these kids should do serious prison time.
I’m just saying that the father’s attitude seems to confirm what I say about how it’s a parents’ responsibility to at least try to educate their kid about how to responsibly use alcohol - not just pretend like it doesn’t exist.
What if it was YOUR son and you hadn’t taught them anything about how to handle alcohol? You don’t think you might feel a bit of culpability?
@Hunt There were 3 or 4 recruitment events at the house as described in the presentment. All of these were before the fatal bid acceptance night. At each of these events, alcohol was served. So, before Tim arrived on Feb 2, he certainly knew that this was NOT, in fact, a “dry” house as it was supposed to be. He also texted his girlfriend before that night saying that he knew it would involve “getting f-ed up”. It was not a surprise to him. I just don’t know that most people have ever consumed 4-5 drinks in 2 minutes, so they have no idea how that will impact them. I know that I certainly would have no idea that this would take my BAC to .40!
I go to a school where roughly 13% of a 35k undergrad body is in a IFC fraternity or Pan Hel Sorority. I think it’s very important the PSY adopts a program that teaches those in Greek life especially proper alcohol education. My school does that and we have very few incidents. Parents should also discuss in depth ways to cope with alcohol on a college campus. I’m grateful my parents did so it wasn’t a culture shock. It is also IFCs job to enforce rules such as a dry rush and proper sanctions for houses that violate any rules. I joined an upper tier fraternity at my school and was never pressured to do anything I was uncomfortable with. I also chose to pledge dry. If the house won’t let you pledge dry then it’s prob not a good sign off the bat. I’ve had so much fun being a part of Greek life sober. And I think the mentality needs to change across Greek life that getting hammered isn’t necessarily the only avenue to have a great time.
“I think the mentality needs to change across Greek life that getting hammered isn’t necessarily the only avenue to have a great time.”
I think the mentality needs to change across the board that getting hammered is always dangerous and irresponsible, for everyone, everywhere.
Yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions But when you are FORCED to drink lethal amounts of alcohol …then this is a problem. It is so sad that you have to risk your life in order to feel Included and to fit in and to become a member of a group.
If your comment is directed at me then yes, I’m aware and I agree. I’m against hazing, and I am in the camp that thinks the majority of fraternities serve no positive purpose.
Yes well it is up to the prosecution to prove they picked the right targets and issued the right charges.
I have to agree after watching the father on tv this morning that it felt like he was a parent who probably should have assumed his son would drink and had the talk. I winced a couple times during that interview. Hindsight is sometimes a horrible thing to live with.
To learn your child died from excessive drinking is one thing. To hear that your child was essentially tortured to death by people who were supposed to be his brothers is another altogether.
For anyone who hasn’t read the full timeline, here it is again. It’s absolutely horrifying.
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/newhope-lambertville/penn-state-frat-house-death-fast-drinking-slow-death-frantic
Here comes the defense…
http://www.philly.com/philly/education/Defense-lawyer-in-PSU-frat-case-calls-charges-against-his-client-inappropriatesaid-his-client-.html
I think parents and parents’ association (and yes I do mean each high school’s PTA, plus CommonSenseEducation and all the other groups out there) should mount a campaign toward Hollywood similar to what was done in the 80’s against smoking in teen films - in that currently virtually all teen movies depict college = getting hammered = no consequences except throwing up and laughing about stupid things you did. Each of these scenes now on should include real consequence, or be taken out altogether. The party scene in Liberal Arts is fine, parties in The Middle also, I’m not even talking about sanitizing reality but rather not to glamorize and normalize binge drinking. The overaching narrative “sold” to our kids should not be one of excessive drinking = fun = college. When I got to college, I had no idea “binge drinking” was defined as 5 drinks in an hour, because films made it look like students drank 20 glasses/shots in a row. I didn’t go to parties and didn’t drink, and I wasn’t alone - and that, to surprised me. And in the past 15-20 years, it’s only gotten worse (think: The Neighbors, American Pie… pretty much any “teen” movie involve some sort of wild drunken-ness.)
I also think that alcohol use on college campuses should be considered a public health issue, just like tobacco became from the 80’s till now - and, in parrallel, we should accept that 18-21 year olds should be allowed legal access to wine and beer in bars, either in town bars or at an on campus bar.
I believe that the combination of condemning drunken-ness and giving access to “lighter” alcohol in a controlled setting will diminish “pregaming” and some of the negative aspects to frat parties/dorm parties.
Gary DiBileo’s mother also issued a statement to UK’s Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4497512/Mom-Penn-State-frat-boy-charged-hazing-death.html