Agreed Hanna. And therein lies the difference between IFC and NPC chapters. The women’s organizations would rather be proactive and step in knowing they will anger and disappoint thousands of alumnae, than let a chapter continue with questionable practices, then ultimately see something truly tragic happen. I hope that we will see similar judgement exercised by PSU at some point in the future. I am not encouraged, thus far, by the way they have responded to this tragedy.
Close Down All Fraternities…
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/close-down-all-fraternities-20170515.html
“It’s not just that fraternity members are more likely than other male students to commit sexual assault or indulge in binge drinking, which led to Piazza’s death and criminal charges against 18 of his Beta Theta Pi brothers. It’s that fraternities teach men that they must degrade women — and debase themselves — to cement their tough-guy bona fides”
Ban Fraternities? Readers Respond…
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/ban-fraternities-readers-respond-20170517.html
“Let’s just put the fraternity issue aside,” Abby wrote. “If it was just a party then how could human beings let another human being die like that? No matter the group or organization it was wrong that they did not call 911 sooner. It was negligent and horrific. It’s not about the fraternity; it’s [the fact that] these people did nothing to save another person’s life. That’s where they are liable.”
“I’ve read that it used to be common to have a house parent/director at fraternities a long time ago, but this died out at some point. I wonder if bringing them back as a requirement would solve a lot of the problems we see at fraternities that are almost non-existent at sororities. Take dozens of young males living in a house together with no adult supervision, throw in alcohol, and you’re bound to have problems.”
But they did have a “house parent” type figure there. He was affiliated with the school as a trainer.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/penn_state_footballs_head_trai.html
^^^Yes, according to reports he was there the night of February 2 supposedly asleep in his room. Unless the house parent/adviser takes an active role in knowing what is going on at the house, it doesn’t do much good. There were also security cameras in the house. I would presume that as an adviser, even if he weren’t there 24/7, it would be his responsibility to monitor the tapes to know what was going on in his absence. Since it has been documented that the Gauntlet happened on every bid acceptance night, this would certainly be something that their adviser would have been aware of by watching these tapes.
Unfortunately, all too often, the advisers are alumni of these chapters who have lived through these bad behaviors and think all will be fine. It is like a parent who let’s their teenagers have friends over to drink. Adults need to act like adults for there to be an impact.
Yes, this was far from the first partying that went on at the frat. It was a regular occurrence despite being a “dry” frat. I find it very hard to believe that the advisor living in residence would be oblivious to all that - noise, evidence before and after. He just chose to look the other way. I think that advisor has culpability and should face some consequences as well.
Apparently Bream who was a PSU alum and a member of Beta Theta Pi moved into the house a year or 2 ago after separating from his wife-- he looks to be in his late 40’s. As an Assistant Athletic Director he is also technically an employee of PSU, although his position at the house they contend was “on his own time” and has no connection with the university.
The District Attorney is on record stating that she could find no evidence that Bream had any knowledge of Timothy Piazza’s injuries or that the fraternity brothers came to him at any time for advice on how to handle the situation. Given that, the DA can attach no criminal responsibility to him. Tim Piazza’s father said in a press interview that Bream claimed to be “asleep” through the events of that evening.
Bream will most likely be named in the civil suit by the Piazza’s. The parents are calling for his firing from the university – contend it is an insult to the memory of their son to have someone so derelict in their duties employed by a university.
ETA: of course if testimony from any of the students charged indicates Bream did have knowledge then things could change for him from the perspective of criminal liability.
Ugh. So much for that idea.
@MomfromPA15317
I would use the word “careless” if the frat “brothers” had rear ended a parked car in the parking lot
Or
Left the frat door open causing the couch to be stolen from the frat lobby
Or
Cutting in line at the bank or post office
Or
Accidentally walked out from the cafeteria without paying for food
This was criminal. There is no ifs and buts about it.
I hope the judge/jury comes down extremely harshly on the 18 (unlike the Stanford assault case) and they get to share a prison and be “brotherly” to each other in there.
I am so stunned that many are trying to blame the dead kid (not you, but many over the social media in comments)
@MomfromPA15317 – I understand what you’re saying. My posting that link was to once again attempt redirection of the PSU “culture” regurgitation broadbrush into hopefully a rational discussion about this ritualistic depravity by some and some pragmatic ideas to stem the tide. It is not unique to one school.
In fact, while reviewing that link, I was extremely disheartened to read about a young 2011 Cornell sophomore in Sigma Alpha Epsilon that was “kidnapped” by freshmen pledges, (won’t go into the debasement of hazing), left with head turned to the side for vomiting purposes and left to die – which tragically happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/education/edlife/a-hazing-at-cornell.html
Should education specific to hazing/ritualistic risky behaviors begin in high school? Maybe it’s already being addressed, and I’m not aware.
It is my view that if you want to get rid of dangerous hazing, you have to get rid of ALL hazing, even stuff that seems harmless and innocent. Otherwise, it just escalates over time. I would add that it’s possible to have initiation rituals that aren’t hazing at all–they can be positive.
“The District Attorney is on record stating that she could find no evidence that Bream had any knowledge of Timothy Piazza’s injuries or that the fraternity brothers came to him at any time for advice on how to handle the situation. Given that, the DA can attach no criminal responsibility to him. Tim Piazza’s father said in a press interview that Bream claimed to be “asleep” through the events of that evening.”
How in the world can a 40-something adult be “asleep” through an entire fraternity party? This wasn’t 4 or 5 guys eating pizza and watching SNL. With as much booze that was apparently consumed, those guys had to have been loud.
Maybe the 40-something adult was drinking as well. Or was wearing noise-cancelling headphones.
@Hunt I agree. I understand how hard it is to change the mindset with some of the stuff that seems silly but it has to be done. For example, my sorority has banned the making of “paddles” as gifts traditionally decorated and given from a Little to their Big at Initiation. These paddles were never used to hit anyone within our chapter. But, they symbolize that use so they are banned. When we had to change the craft, members were disappointed that a tradition was dying because it truly was harmless but it has to be enforced. Now, they make an alternate craft and a new tradition has begun. Better to be overly cautious about the seemingly silly stuff, than have it morph into something that is unintended.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-chico-trees-20170517-story.html
time to abolish frats
608.............The culture of denial maybe at other places but PSU has these historically large mishaps that are happening at my so called state flagship and I believe many of us that are outside of "Happy Valley" have the right to demand more of our university and its leadership.For goodness sake, Jay Paterno(he will bring forth a resolution to bring back his father's statue) was brought back by the Board of Trustees the same day the charges against the inhumane behavior of the 18 fraternity members hit the news. It's gross. Penn State has amazing opportunities for students and produces brilliant graduates but denying responsibility and neglecting the opportunity to make substantial change is not the answer. I could go on and on and I believe Penn State has a problem and it is time to change that mindset.
IFC tell President Barron to grow up…
"Penn State President Eric Barron described the details revealed in the grand jury findings as “heart-wrenching and incomprehensible.”
However, Piazza’s parents said that Penn State made the changes only after “we told them they had to.”
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/campus/article_9e87a454-31d5-11e7-88a2-c77f9a2f754a.html
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/campus/article_c1aa9654-e44f-11e6-a86e-9f0ebdc81394.html
Outside of Happy Valley you get this…Outrage on Penn State Plan to Honor Paterno
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/09/02/outrage-over-penn-state-plan-honor-paterno
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/11/us/paterno-legacy-barron/
Marci Hamilton, who represents Sandusky victims, compared Barron to the Catholic bishops who covered for child abuse by some priests.
“He is taking a page out of the bishops’ playbook on child sex abuse, which is proven to prolong the institution’s problems and put it in an ultimately unfavorable light,” Hamilton said.
Photos: Paterno as Penn State coach
Photos: Photos: Paterno as Penn State coach
In the cases that Barron said were unsubstantiated, the university reached settlements and paid money to the alleged victims.
It is not the first time Barron has been criticized for putting university or image first.
Before he was hired to lead Penn State, Barron was president of Florida State University. He was at the helm in 2012 when Jameis Winston, FSU’s Heisman-winning quarterback, was accused of sexual assault of a fellow student.
Barron had cautioned against a rush to judgment in the Winston case. He was hired by Penn State shortly after the prosecutor declined to file charges. Just two months after he was hired by Penn State, The New York Times filed a detailed investigative piece, accusing Barron’s administration of hindering the police investigation, working with Winston’s lawyers instead of prosecutors. The alleged victim, Erica Kinsman, later sued and in her lawsuit the prosecutor is quoted saying the university “handicapped” the investigation.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-chico-trees-20170517-story.html
time to abolish frats
uh, no. There are multiple reasons why that is a terrible idea and almost can’t happen.
- Fraternity members donate more of their time and money (to non-profits) than non-fraternity members (among males). The same can be said for sorority vs. non-sorority women, but nobody is clamoring for all sororities to be shut down, so...
- Fraternity members fill more leadership positions (per capita) than non-fraternal members. Clearly, fraternity members are picking up skills that industry and government find valuable.
- Freedom of association
- Fraternity members make more donations to their schools than non-members.
We only hear the negative stories. If you want to believe all fraternities are like this or are overall harmful, that’s your prerogative, but you would be misled.
If shutting farts mean academics frats too. Then so be it. Especially phi theta kappa.
Why aren’t there any academic frats that support students who’s grades are below 3.0?
The tone and content of that letter to President Barron illustrates just how much the IFC and the organizations it represents just doesn’t get it.
This is a time for them to show contriteness and accept responsibility for their part/association with the Penn State greek community. Going the opposite and telling off the President and continuing to call for support from the Penn State community when the optics make it seem they’ve constantly taken that support for granted by the fact too many of their organizations continued the violations/criminal actions culminating in Piazza’s death…the amount of sheer chutzpah and gall is ridiculous…
These are some of the things which repelled me about such organizations along with their notions of what actions constitute fulfilling prereqs for being a “tough guy”.
I don’t know, but in my mind and in the society where my parents/grandparents came from, drinking oneself into oblivion and harassing/degrading women was considered a sign one was a weak overindulgent ne’er do well degenerate lacking self-control…the opposite of being a tough guy.
Possibly because their selection criterion on the basis of academic merit rather than social exclusivity/likeability/social status factors is much closer to the main mission of the university/college being an academic educational institution…
^Talk about tone deaf. They make it all about how they aren’t getting enough support from the university. Some snippets from the letter
The fraternity experience failed your son? We may have fallen short?
This fraternity killed a student at the university and they’re using language like this? It’s insulting.