Penn State is a major National University. What Penn State and their Greek organizations do next may have a nation-wide impact. Does Penn State return to business as usual and the parties and hospitalizations begin again in the fall?
Or do they may make it clear that Greek organizations that do not provide compliance, cooperation and transparency are finished?
How will the Greek organizations respond?
This is not a defense, exactly, but it may be that at this frat it wasn’t unusual to have guys lying around completely blacked out. Most of the time, they do in fact sleep it off.
I also wanted to react to this:
I would argue that terrible behavior by groups of young men in situations like this is not abnormal at all. It happens all the time. What’s unusual is that this time, somebody died. That’s not typical, although it happens somewhere every year, if not more often. The behavior that led to the death, in my opinion, is much more common. A house full of young men with no real adult supervision, lots of alcohol, and a culture of hazing virtually ensures that this will happen periodically. To think that these guys were unusually inhuman monsters misses the mark, I think.
It seems like most of these tragedies happen during the Hazing period.
Isn’t there a way to allow Greek society to exist without the Hazing process?
Asking as an ignorant non-Greek.
aww Melody, cute indignant letter…but anyone from a Greek dominated campus knows that Greek = fraternities. Sororities are not the issue here and although I am sure they do a lot of service so do other people. Like the the clubs and the service fraternity. Your group really just does not matter that much. Now, the fraternities in their grand old houses, backed by National matter quite a bit. Anyway, nice to know that you are learning to write essays, while at PSU.
I have to say that this is not the first rodeo for PSU with regard to drunken partying, in fraternities and outside of them. As a state resident I am beyond disappointed. And…guess what that cha ching sound is…the sound of tuition rising again. At this point, our kids go to WVU out of state for less than they can go to PSU in state. Still, there are so many great programs there and I would love to feel confident sending my kid there in a couple of years. Pull it together PSU!!!
From Ms. Oztan’s letter:
I know where Timothy Piazza would be without it.
Alive.
Young men. Colleges do not usually admit boys.
While I understand where you’re coming from, I think the above not only gives far too little credit to the many young men who don’t behave like remedial applicants to the romper room, but also unwittingly normalize the low behavioral expectations too many areas of our society have for traditionally aged college students in general.
This behavior would have been completely out of character for the vast majority of the college classmates at my and many other similar undergrads.
It’s even more out of the norm in many other societies abroad. For instance, while drinking was tolerated among 18+ adults in my family’s culture of origin, getting outright drunk and acting rowdy/violent/stupid wasn’t tolerated even by one’s peers.
It was also considered uncool by most young adults as such behavior in that society was much more commonly associated with older middle aged/senior aged men who had ne’er do well characteristics.
The real issue here is an ingrained issue within a cultural subgroup within our society.
I don’t think most college aged students need “real adult supervision”. I also think that chalking it up to a lack of supervision, lots of alcohol, and a culture of hazing is excusing it as “boy will be boys” behavior. I do think there is an apparent culture of hazing with a solid portion of greek life. It’s past time to deal with that or, better yet since nothing seems to work, do away with it completely. If we can’t expect better of male college students, time to start expecting more and teaching them more. I still feel certain (hopeful!) that the vast majority of college students would have handled this differently and much less callously.
Most college aged students do not need “real adult supervision” but one could easily make the case that PSU needs adult supervision going from the ongoing molestation scandal to the fraternity management all the way to appointing Jay Paterno to the Board of Trustees on this past Friday(Trustees are made up of alumni). Costing instate residents $35 grand per year from a middle class family to softer entrance requirements for OOS students willing to pay full freight.
PSU needs “Real Adult Supervision”.
I suggest you read the comments to this article…this is how the rest of the world views PSU…
@Hunt “I would argue that terrible behavior by groups of young men in situations like this is not abnormal at all. It happens all the time. What’s unusual is that this time, somebody died. That’s not typical, although it happens somewhere every year, if not more often. The behavior that led to the death, in my opinion, is much more common. A house full of young men with no real adult supervision, lots of alcohol, and a culture of hazing virtually ensures that this will happen periodically. To think that these guys were unusually inhuman monsters misses the mark, I think.”
I think this is correct for the most part. I would add that he is not suggesting that the bar should be low, or commenting about what expectations should be.
Society knows that young men are putting themselves into this position every weekend at campuses across the country. Then once every month or two someone dies, and we all act like we are surprised at the conduct.
It seems to me that either the Greek community needs to change its behavior to make it less dangerous, or Universities need to stop recognizing these organizations, or we need to stop being surprised when these incidents happen.
Seriously, not sure if the problem itself is with the greek system or part of it (such as hazing). Seems to me there are thousands of college kids in frats/sororities who go through the system with no issues (at least none that are permanent). So I am not sure its the system itself. Hazing itself is not an issue either. Just cannot go too far. Tough line to draw many times particularly with young adults who are largely on their own for the first time and trying to figure out who they are and their place in the world.
I don’t think are alcohol policies are helpful. If kids could drink in the US when still under the supervision of their parents (like is the case in many European countries), I think they could better learn effects, limits, etc. But instead they cannot drink legally until they are juniors in college. Gives alcohol a forbidden fruit aspect to it. Especially with all the advertising that surrounds them.
From everything I have seen, vast majority of kids are able to handle alcohol fine. Same is true of participating in greek system. Need to find ways to create incentives/policies for the kids who run into problems to avoid those problems. Easier said than done.
“A house full of young men with no real adult supervision, lots of alcohol, and a culture of hazing virtually ensures that this will happen periodically. To think that these guys were unusually inhuman monsters misses the mark, I think.”
Totally agree. There’s enough ugly incidents that occur to prove that these kids were not all that exceptional. The real point is that potent combination of college kids, hazing, group psychology and very excessive risky drinking results in awful situations on a fairly regular and predictable basis. That’s not a legal excuse, but it is a factual explanation. Remember the Florida A&M band death for example?
Only thing unusual here is that it resulted in a kid dying (so we hear about it).
My guess is that this risky ritual at this frat has been repeated many times before. But previously everyone just slept it off.
“At this point, our kids go to WVU out of state for less than they can go to PSU in state. Still, there are so many great programs there and I would love to feel confident sending my kid there in a couple of years. Pull it together PSU!!!”
FYI, WVU had a frat hazing death in 2014…
“My guess is that this risky ritual at this frat has been repeated many times before. But previously everyone just slept it off.”
Do you think a pledge fell down the stairs onto his head twice many times before and everyone chose not to call for help and covered up things not to get in trouble? Because that is what this is about. This is beyond “frat pledge drinks too much, passes out on floor, wakes up in the morning” kind of stuff. Yes, the culture that led up to the change of events is much too common, unfortunately, yet this case is different and there were many, many points along the way when one of those 18 guys could have taken some other steps instead of collectively trying to cover their asses.
@northwesty…oh yeah WVU definitely has problems. But for what my student wants to study we wouldn’t consider it in the first place. PSU has the program that student wants…but is it a safe spot for my non perfect young adult child? an open question…
For my neighbors (“our kids” meaning our town’s kids) it’s more a case of big uni with a drinking and hazing issue in state (PSU), or out of state(WVU). and if you have to face these issues, well at least it should be cheaper in your own state! some of our PASSHE campuses also have tremendous alcohol-fueled issues. For any state, I think you only hear about the smaller ones if you live there. Only the big ones, like this one, make the national news. I am starting to wonder where this problem does not happen more than where it does…
(edited to clarify whose kids)
I referred to this earlier but no one bit. I’ll try again.
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/friendly-reminder-the-legal-drinking-age-too-high
There would be no need for private drinking clubs aka fraternities.
@saillarkee: Hazing ALWAYS goes too far, by definition. Hazing is not pledging - hazing means a person within a system deciding to humiliate, hurt, or place someone at risk while having some authority over them. (That’s why hazing is illegal, whereas pledging is legal).
This fraternity was supposed to be a “model” fraternity, with no hazing. A “dry” fraternity.
If such things were happening, what might be happening at wet or non model fraternities?
Note that there were cocktail of various liquors, but the fraternity was also cited for numerous
drug violations.
What if beer and wine were legal, in certain quantities, for 18+, and only hard liquor were banned?
ETA: @TomSrOfBoston : I had not seen your post, but I agree. If college students could go to a bar and order beer, it’d change a lot of things for the better. Fraternities could focus on leadership and volunteering, since they say those are their main motives, and it’d even fuel new small businesses in college towns 
As for Penn State, since the fraternities clearly can’t self regulate, they should choose between having a resident adult supervisor (paid by their dues) or relinquish their charter.
Hopefully, it IS unusual to have guys lying face down at the bottom of a staircase, Hunt. This was not a case of alcohol poisoning. He fell down the stairs. The other guys KNEW he had fallen down the stairs. They had his shirt off and could see he had a huge bruise already. This case is well beyond the usual frat shenanigans.
For those of you who live in the State College area, is there a “boys will be boys” sentiment in the community, or no?
I would sum up what I am hearing as “enough is enough, shut them down” and “the University is so stupid, did they really believe a bunch of rules would stop this” Students seem to universally know that the frats live to drink, and anything else is window dressing.
I have only heard “this is really awful but you know, stuff happens” from a very, very, very few people, who then (wait for it!) then tell some sordid story about when they were in a Greek org. Students are gone now. The Collegian wrote a strongly worded editorial supporting prosecution, equivocally.