Penn State Sandusky scandal

Parent Cafe
2541

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I think it’s a little much to say that the football program was the “root cause” of the abuse. I think that lets Sandusky off the hook too much.</p>

<p>As for McQueary, I’ve said that it would be useful to get his side of the story–but I don’t think this e-mail is very helpful. It may simply be his rationalization that talking to Schultz and Curley constituted talking to the “police.” There’s certainly no indication that he called the actual police (including the campus police) at any time. What’s a more difficult question is whether he believed he did the right thing, and whether, knowing all the facts, a reasonable person might think his actions were justified. As I’ve pointed out before, he did something, when his own best interests would have been served by doing nothing at all.</p>

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<p>Hunt, I would agree with you if not for this sentence from the email:</p>

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<p>Emphasis is mine.</p>

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<p>Pitt students are not significantly different than PSU students. Nor is it a better school overall.</p>

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I think this is a pretty vague statement. I don’t think it would exactly be a “lie” if by this he just means Schultz–and this wasn’t a statement under oath anyway. I just wouldn’t put much weight on it one way or the other.</p>

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<p>I agree, it’s all very vague. Maybe he’s just trying to look better, like he reported it someone that HE CONSIDERED to be the police, when in fact it was Schulz who had administrative oversight over the police.</p>

<p>by the way, I love how it’s called OVERSIGHT!!!</p>

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<p>I agree. Also after almost 10 years, your mind can start to believe that certian things happened a certian way. So he may think he is telling the truth, and not be correctly remembering all of the facts. 10 years is a really long time. This is going to be a real mess for everyone to figure out.</p>

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<p>I can imagine lots of things, such as:
McQueary: Should we call the police?
Schultz: I am the police.</p>

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<p>Hunt, or this:
McQ:Who do I need to report to?
Paterno: we need to contact Schultz for direction, he is dept. Chair over the campus police.
Schultz takes the “report”</p>

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<p>Or, of course:
McQ: Should we call the police?
Paterno, Curley, and Schultz: Are you crazy?</p>

<p>I don’t want anyone to confuse my insistence on knowing the facts with an inability to understand what the facts most likely are. I do think that the known facts suggest that McQueary, at least, struggled with what exactly to do.</p>

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<p><strong>I think it’s a little much to say that the football program was the “root cause” of the abuse. I think that lets Sandusky off the hook too much.</strong></p>

<p>You are right…to clarify, the football program was the root cause of the coverup, which led to the abuse going on for so long.</p>

<p><strong>McQ: Should we call the police?
Paterno, Curley, and Schultz: Are you crazy?</strong>
Paterno, Curley and Schultz: What about all the collateral damage? What about the cheerleaders and the band, and all the people who might lose jobs? What about the team? No, we can’t say anything. It wouldn’t be right.</p>

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<p>Penn State pays something called (creatively enough) “in-lieu-of-taxes”, on the order of several hundred thousand dollars, to the various townships and borough. They also pay business taxes (I’m less sure about this) for stuff at the various venues. I’m no expert, it’s just that it’s argued about every single year as to whether they are paying enough, or not.</p>

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<p>Have we proven there was a cover up?</p>

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<p>green button–</p>

<p>I’m not from Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>I’m speaking of ALL universities. I’m really not speaking only of this scandal, but how to avoid these kinds of situations.</p>

<p>Tom, to some extent, there was a cover up.</p>

<p>No reports were filed with the proper outside authorities.</p>

<p>Who exactly was responsible for the coverup? We don’t yet know. If we ever will. Someone will be held responsible, but it won’t be everyone involved.</p>

<p>If someone raped your neighbor and drove away and you saw the llsence plate number but knew it was a local mafioso and chose not to report for your own safety, you would be a part of a coverup. Whether you could be held legally responsible is another matter.</p>

<p>At the very least, in this case, decisions were made with the broader reputation of the school and Sandusky in mind at the expense of the victims who were children. At the most, it was motivated by something even darker like the desire for the football team to continue to make so much money. JMO</p>

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<p>Cover up implies something sinister and we have no idea if there was a cover up to protect the football program. Football may have never been in the thought process. It could have been McQuery thinks I walked away from the rape of a 10 year old. How could I have done that but I still better report Sandusky. I will down play what I saw but still report. Now years later under oath he understands I better not lie. See football never enters the equation.</p>

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<p>tom,</p>

<p>I do not know for sure what actions Paterno took to ensure that justice was done. But based on what I know, I believe that there was a cover-up of Sandusky’s actions by Penn State. I further believe that, based on Paterno’s prestige and power, the nature of the offense and people involved in the events, the reputational stakes ( both institutional and personal); that it is highly unlikely (but possible) that Joe was not involved in/central to the cover-up.</p>

<p>You suggest that those who rail loudest are ardently anti-football or PSU and I largely agree. I suggest that those who jump highest to defend Joe are trying to salvage a long held dream; an illusion that is being revealed with each news cycle. The Penn State community, and the athletic community in general (includes self), have held Joe in the highest regard for the longest time. But in the case of some (self, again) the high regard is based largely on imagery, and anectodal information. Certainly Paterno has done great things at PSU; I believe, based on what is now known, he may have done awful things as well. </p>

<p>The facts will come out. And when they do, if Joe was involved in covering up Sandusky’s actions, he is, on balance, a punk. To be sure, a man who won 409 games, helped grow a tremendous public (I think, confused by earlier posts) university, a loyal father, devoted husband, and inspirational leader; but in reality, just a punk.</p>

<p>Those are the stakes.</p>

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<p>I feel exactly the same way as poetgirl does. The way the university system is set up is bound to create/allow, call it what you will, these situations to happen.
The system is set up to PROMOTE
Self-dealing
conflicts of interest
collusion.
These are all too easy to fall into when a large institution polices itself, monitors itself, investigates itself, decides who in their community to report or charge, is not accountable in the way citizens are to a third party or to a higher authority. (Mind you, there is always debate on our country about larger entities and how to limit their power, increases their accountability: corporations, police forces, you name it- but a very NEEDED and HEALTHY debate that we are all INVITED to participate in. TBH our government is in need of the same sort of overhaul right about now…)</p>

<p>Please, let is understand that this tragedy started with an evil individual. I do wish it had ended there. It would have ended much sooner if the “university” were beholden to others, outsiders, unbiased observers and enforcers.
Football program, whatever!</p>

<p>Too many things are happening on campuses. Do I need to list these again?</p>

<p>And believe me the ethics and moral fiber of our young people who attend these schools are influenced by all the “special” privileges accorded this kingdom.</p>

<p>On a lighter note, thank god for Jon Stewart. Too perfect. </p>

<p>Last, to me, Sandusky calling in to do a phone interview with his lawyer in the studio is just the latest and certainly strongest sign that yes, in our hyper-connected society and world, for better or worse, cases are being tried through the media. (I could imagine hearing S and M [ha ha] saying, well, we might as well milk it somehow…)</p>

<p>It all started with OJ, a reality show of a case, where we actually watched him run away in his white SUV from the police for hours together on our screens.</p>

<p>This in another milestone in the evolution of how justice is carried (or mis-carried) in our country. It may be a modern version of stoning. But it may also be a the beginning of sunshine everywhere.
Will the interview be considered evidence, since he was not under oath, but his lawyer was right there??? That is gong to be interesting, and will definitely affect the use of media in future cases.</p>

<p>(btw, I am totally with those who think McQ may have queered his cred a bit by relaying that email- it definitely weakens or calls into question or muddles the strength of his statements as reported by the GJ statement.)</p>

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<p>Why incompetent and impotent?</p>

<ul>
<li>There is very little job advancement opportunities in campus police-talented officers will try to get jobs in bigger police forces.</li>
<li>There is no structure in place to support these officers-nowhere to go, no positions of authority to go to, limited expertise in areas outside basic policing—a quick look at the UCF shooting incident demonstrates a campus police force getting involved in areas they have no experience in or expertise with a disastrous result.</li>
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<p>The issue is not cost-you could simply replace the campus police with a special unit of the local police with direct reporting to the County and indirect to the administration.</p>

<p>Big problem for me is that college students, and families with young children are given the impression that there is a police force on campuses that provide the same level of protection as a typical police force–nothing could be farther from the truth.</p>

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<p>"I live in America, but I don’t see everything in terms of race. And this topic has nothing to do with race.</p>

<p>Why do you always bring the conversation around to race?"</p>

<p>There is a possibility that race may come into this, depending on the race of the vicitims.</p>

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<p>There is no question that the huge role of football at PSU creates a huge motive for a cover-up–and that alone will make it very difficult for many people to believe that there wasn’t a cover-up, no matter what comes out in the wash. I think it’s also possible that nobody covered up the truth in order to protect football, but merely to protect their own personal interests–perhaps that’s even more cynical.</p>

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<p>Hunt valid point, as usual, but in the end if there was a cover up, man, that is just horrific. All cover-ups are not created equal. Covering up embezzlement, theft, political corruption - illegal. Covering this up - un-effing-forgivable.</p>