<p>To annasdad- Don’t you get it? (your post 2513) This is basically paraphrasing from Bogart’s “Knock On Any Door”, 1949. It didn’t work on the [fictional] jurors in the movie, it didn’t work for moviegoers, and I don’t think it works now.
I’m not sure the statement was intended to be taken seriously.</p>
<p>sm- incompetence and bad acts are not limited to campus police. I would need to see data that campus police are not sufficiently trained before I think that they should be disbanded. I also am not sure that the towns where large universities are located are ready to take on the increased costs that would be required.</p>
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<p>I completely agree with this.</p>
<p>I believe all institutions need to be policed by outside agencies, or corruption will occur eventually, on some level, over something. Outside policing agencies not only protect victims, but they protect people like Paterno from accusations of collusion. JMO</p>
<p>ETA: I believe universities should be made to pay property taxes, at a reduced rate, in order to defray the cost of community policing.</p>
<p>There are bad acts and corruption in so many law enforcement agencies- is it more prevalent in campus police organizations?</p>
<p>I’m with poetgrl in agreeing that the role of campus police needs to be examined.</p>
<p>And yes, tom, there is corruption in many agencies, but campus police seem to put the institution before the individual. And, yes, that is a generalization.</p>
<p>Let me ditto the shout out to Jon Stewart on this - that video is spot on!</p>
<p>Didn’t listen to the interviews.
This is ill making.</p>
<p>*Warning: This court document contains graphic descriptions. *</p>
<p>[Jerry</a> Sandusky arrested: Grand jury report - The Washington Post](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html]Jerry”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html)</p>
<p>The bottom line here, to me, is that the university covered up a terrible, terrible crime, turned a blind eye as it went on for years and years, just so that their precious football program didn’t get tarnished. As unfair as it is to the innocent, the program should be shut down. Let it be a lesson to others.</p>
<p>Because if this isn’t enough to shut down a football program, then what on earth is?</p>
<p>poet and rom I agree there should be an extensive investigation into every aspect of this situation. It should be transparent and done with subpoena power where ever the chips fall they should fall. If it is determined that campus police should go so be it. If it is determined that this was a cover up to protect football let there be consequences. If it is determined that this was a cabal of evil men prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. If is determined that decent men made mistakes let that be known also.</p>
<p>Tom, I hope that the investigation can be done by someone with no agenda but to find the truth.</p>
<p>From the Grand Jury Report:</p>
<p>“Department of Public Welfare and Children and Youth Services local and state records were subpoenaed by the Grand Jury. University Police records were also subpoenaed. The records revealed that the 2002 incident was never reported to any officials, in contravention of Pennsylvania law.”</p>
<p>rom I think we all agree with that.</p>
<p>Nrd- I was aware of that. I have read the report several times.</p>
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<p>There is a reason why we do not go in and level entire countries despite having crooked and immoral leaders. The collateral damage is wrong and unfair. The Geneva Convention does not even allow for the punishment of a group of people because of the acts of a few. And I do not believe in holding a child responsible for the sins of a parent. </p>
<p>Is ending football the same as leveling a country? No, but it will deeply impact many people economically outside of the campus, including the entire state of PA. It goes beyond the campus. It would be similar to the reasons used not to allow the auto industry to fail. The people that had NOTHING to do with this would be devestated. Think vendors, t-shirt makers, transportation, small business in the area…the list goes on. </p>
<p>I did not like the idea of helping the auto industry. But with the help they received, and the changes they HAD to make, they have improved their industry significantly. I just think that PSU deserves the right to fix the problems.</p>
<p>**crossposted with greenbutton. Sorry I used the word “but”!</p>
<p>(I swore I would stop reading or posting…sighhhhh)</p>
<p>The notion that the town has sufficient police force to also police the shenanigans present on every college campus is something beyond unworkable. And you believe universities should pay taxes to defray that cost? …oh wait, they already do. I would update your thoughts in regard to local government structure, local economic conditions and the like, but I have come to realize that anything short of saying “yes! everyone is to blame! let’s burn the entire school down! sow the fields with salt!” is insufficient. </p>
<p>An ESPN column derided both the 20K at the vigil and 100,000 being perfectly quiet and praying before the game as “self-serving” and “insincere”. Across the country, everyone is “sure” they are doing better, and would have done better here. Newspeople at the riot asked students to throw things so they could get a good shot (This reported from a student I know). The van was overturned by out-of-town drunks who came to party; I in no way excuse the riot, it was stupid. But it is very hard, after that sort of canted coverage, to feel anything other than willfully misunderstood. I ask again – what do you feel is an appropriate response on the part of the students, professors, and town? What is it that would be “enough” penance? And if we can agree no amount of anything can make this right, what do we do then? You want to confer pariah status on the 40K students and thousands of faculty who were never in 5 feet of Sandusky? The athletes who raise thousands for Lift for Life and Coaches for Cancer and ThinkPink intiatives? The Into The Streets activists and the Philadelphia Project classes? The Fulbright Scholars and the pro bono legal offices? Ordinary people who run restaurants, hotels, stores, schools, and research firms? </p>
<p>What do you want? And let’s see if there are answers that don’t include “but…” in them. (As in, “we weren’t saying you were bad, but…”)</p>
<p>“And you believe universities should pay taxes to defray that cost? …oh wait, they already do.”</p>
<p>They do? As employers, they pay payroll taxes, and everyone pays sales taxes, but they usually do not pay property taxes to their local government. In most regions, that is the main funding source for the police. If you know that Penn State is an exception and does pay property taxes, let us know.</p>
<p>greenbutton, colleges do not pay property taxes. they are exempt.</p>
<p>And, just to be clear, I have a problem with univerities, all universities, policing themselves, and have brought this up on various threads in response to various situations, many of which involve the problems inherent in large powerful institutions being exempt from the scrutiny they require.</p>
<p>I believe almost all instances of institution corruption and unaddressed criminal issues on college campuses eventually lead back to the conflict of interest inherent in these institutions policing themselves and making decisions based on the preservation of the universtiy rather than the safety and protection of the individuals.</p>
<p>This is simply one more example of how this happens.</p>
<p>I think poet has a very valid point.</p>
<p>Hanna and poet are correct universities do not pay property taxes on most of their buildings and property. It is possible that some buildings would not qualify for exclusion but it would be very limited</p>
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<p>That’s nice. But I didn’t post it soley for your benefit, but also for those who have not read it.</p>
<p>McQueary’s testimony is reported in the Grand Jury document to reflect that he did not ever speak to the police or any other agency about the incident. In his email to his “friend,” whom he admitted he doesn’t even know very well (but to whom he confides something of utmost importance for the “very first time”), he states he spoke to both Schultz and the police. Records submitted to the GJ indicate that the University police were never notified of the incident, therefore they neither investigated it nor forwarded it to DPW.</p>
<p>So something is seriously wrong here. Is McQueary lying in the email? Did he lie to the Grand Jury? Did the police speak to him about the incident and either NOT file a report about it, or did they destroy records? Did they file reports and not forward them to the Grand Jury despite being subpoenaed to do so?</p>
<p>This stinks on ice. Hopefully the answers to those questions will be answered once all is said and done.</p>
<p>Other things that make you go “hmmmm…”</p>
<p>From the Grand Jury report:</p>
<p>“Victim 7 had not had contact with Sandusky for nearly 2 years but was contacted by Sandusky and separately by Sandusky’s wife and by another Sandusky friend in the weeks prior to Victim 7’s appearance before the Grand Jury. The callers left messages saying the matter was very important. Victim 7 did not return these phone calls.”</p>
<p>No way to know for sure what the implications of the above are, but it certainly does seem an odd coincidence that these people attempted to speak this individual about important matters after years of no contact whatsoever, soon before he was scheduled to speak to the Grand Jury about his experiences with S.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine being an investigator trying to sift through all this.</p>
<p>vlines, you make some good points. I guess it just angers the hell out of me that those guys (and I believe many more than the ones singled out were aware of the situation) put so much value on that program. I guess part of me just wants to say, ‘No, it’s not that important, it can go away and the world will still turn.’</p>
<p>Cockroaches love the dark. The exemption from the Open Records Act for these institutions is ridiculous.</p>
<p>I don’t get the calls to close up the football program, even though so many of the bad actors in this were affiliated with the program. Seems like killing a fly with a hammer. There’s nothing inherently evil about football or PSU. I do hope this is a wake-up call and helps people gain some perspective around sports, however.</p>
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<p>Whenever the NCAA implements sanctions on a school program, there is always collateral damage to innocents: to current players who had nothing to do with events several years prior, to cheerleaders, to band members, to fans, to others who depend upon the economic benefits of the program, etc. That innocents will suffer is never in and of itself a reason to decline to punish a program for the transgressions of its administrators, individual players, boosters, etc. It’s done to make an impact upon the program which has broken rules and to serve as an example to other programs.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that Penn State should either shut down the program or that any other entity should shut it down; the fact that there would be collateral damage to innocents really shouldn’t play into it imo.</p>