<p>Silence from the earlier PSU defenders is deafening</p>
<p>I read a commentary from a noted attorney who is following the trial who said even before the Not Guilty verdicts on those charges, that such a verdict would not kill the perjury case. There is just so much more evidence than just that there. It would have made it a lot easier, however.</p>
<p>I don’t believe Dottie Sandusky knew what her husband was doing to those boys. I cannot believe that she was in bed aware that her SO was molesting children. That she could have stopped in her home, and I cannot believe anyone would let something like that happen. Even a hint that something inappropriate could have been reason for her to just refuse to let S bring the boys over for sleepovers at the house, something that makes no sense to me, anyways. Or just hang around so that S could not do his dirties. In this case, I think she either truly had no idea, and a lot of that might come from just even being able to think that this kind of thing was a possibility, or she was complicit and chose to let it happen and ignored it. I just can’t believe the latter.</p>
<p>I believe the latter. Unfortunately.</p>
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Yeah, me too. :(</p>
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</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it happens all the time. If she didn’t know, it’s because she didn’t want to know. Just ask the many people who were sexually abused by their fathers, whose mothers knew – or had to know – but did nothing.</p>
<p>I saw the news last night – I’m glad they found him guilty, and that’s without knowing about his foster son’s accusation.</p>
<p>The really heart breaking thing was how people close to these boys – teachers, mothers – didn’t realize the boys were being abused. One boy never had any underwear for her to wash, and he explained it away. </p>
<p>How can we help abused children? Unfortunately, this will not be the last case. How can we spot abuse? I get it when they don’t want to spend time with a certain grown up – all kinds of alarms would go off in my head – but how could the adults around these boys have spotted the abuse? I’m not blaming them – I’m asking so that I can spot signs of abuse and maybe step in and help a kid to make it stop.</p>
<p>Father91, who are the PSU defenders? I haven’t read about anyone defending PSU or Sandusky. The questions and remarks have been about what evidence there was in the case, and really at what point what sort of internvention needs to be made when you suspect someone is inappropriate with children. It’s easy to read these things but when you work with children and adult with children, it’s a whole other story to make these kind of determinations. You can be taken out in flash if you don’t have the proof or back up for something like this and levy an accusation. If you do report these things and the police decide there is not enough proof and do nothing, it’s also a problem. And you could be wrong. I am dealing with some issues here that need to be set as policy to protect the children uptmost, but also not cause problems because there was no abuse. You can ruin a person and yourself by making accusations that may not be true. </p>
<p>Though I would love to say that this conviction might stop some pediophiles, that does not seem to work that way. I am glad that Sandusky is going to jail for life because these creeps just don’t seem to be able to stop these crimes. In looking at the situations with priests and others who molested children, they seem to continue the abuses even when confronted, punished, even incarcerated. As soon as they are released and as soon as opportunity strikes, some of those sickos start right up again. Just warning or moving these true pediophiles does not do the job.</p>
<p>But then comes the task of identifying a true pediophle, and not someone who is just a bit careless with personal boundaries and is a touchy feely type person with no common sense who would no more rape or molest a kid or anyone than Mother Theresa would. Someone who is a bit off beat about social situations. You don’t want to blow up someone’s world unless s/he is truly someone who has done these things. And often getting a child to admit what happened is impossible. I don’t know what happened when the police first investigated him and a case was supposed to be made–the whole disappearing prosecutor thing is creepy and troublesome, but I read that they could not corrobative testimony from the child involved to the degree that they had a case. It’s not enough that someone took a shower with your kid. I agree that under nearly all circumstance, it is not appropriate, but taking a shower with a kid if you don’t commit a crime is not a crime in itself. Is forceing a kid to take a shower when he doesn’t want one WITH YOU a crime if you don’t touch or say anything inappropriate? When dealing with real life situations, one needs to be precise inorder to set policy.</p>
<p>One thing I always felt about these boards is that the parent on them are knowledgeable, logical and somewhat flexible in taking in new material. Something that I try to always do, as that as how one learns. Quite different from many boards when a response to a comment one makes is name calling,mocking and just deriding. But in this situation, I think some people are bordering on that. </p>
<p>The true test of the Sandusky case IMO was whether our justice system could fairly try someone and keep his civil rights intact with the media and public opinion out to lynch him. I saw no way he was not going to be found innocent, given the testimonies and evidence and neither did his attorneys. He did not have a chance of getting off, and I stated my views on that quite clearly before the verdict.</p>
<p>Also find it rather bizarre, that it was Sandusky who initiated Matt becoming a foster kid of theirs, whose mother was later denied her 1/2 day per month to see him. I don’t have the full story, whether she was somehow found unfit, but I’ve never heard of this type of arrangement. </p>
<p>How can a non family member pursue a child to become a foster child and then adopt when there is a mother? and clearly this mother was sound enough to know and report her concerns to child welfare who wrote a report that he wasn’t doing well in the placement. The loss of this actual mother’s power is a concern. She was quieted by Sandusky’s ‘pillar of the community persona’, and even after a suicide attempt and then a child welfare report indicated concerns Matt was not taken from their home. </p>
<p>I can only imagine the mind manipulation that was done to this young boy and man for him to psychologically remain there and not talk even when his own mother pushed him to do so. He must have been tortured psychologically, and seeing the victims testify that first day seemed to permit him to find his voice and speak. I read that he sat next to Dottie in court that first day and while she was chatting with others around her he was somber. I also agree, she sounds like she turned the other way, after all he was helping these poor troubled boys so much.</p>
<p>PSU is equivalent to the church leaders who knew and tried to cover it up, while letting the abuse continue the entire time. Put it this way, Joe Paterno isn’t looking down, he’s looking up</p>
<p>Classof2015, that is the question I am asking. At what point can one do what? Having dealt with young boys for over 30 years, trying to get a straight story out of them in far simpler scenarios is just about impossible. And these kids had a lot of problems and were from difficult home situations. The moms were overwhelmed in many cases. Yet one did take it to the police, took it pretty danged far indeed, from what I’ve read. What exactly happened there to not charge Sandusky then, I don’t understand. That was a documented case and it should have been taken to the university and to the Second MIle Foundation at very least. When anyone gets a charge like that levied against him/her, it should then be the end of any being around any children alone other than ones own, and the spouse should also be put on otice. Very harsh, if it is indeed not true, but really it is to safeguard the person,the organization as well as any children< though I don’t think it is protecting future children if that person is a true pediophile. I think these days, no one should be alone with a child anyways. We have to travel in threes. If the kid falls in a manure pile, a group of adults and kids have to be there in the shower watching the scrub down if necessary. All interactins with children have to have others around, and if not, be documented. </p>
<p>It was a flag that the kid did not want to go to Sandusky’s home, but not a sure thing. Many kids go through a time when they want to do nothing that requires a break from their hanging out doing nothing, even when they end up enjoying the activity. I have one who is still that way. He doesn’t like any change or break in routine. As a child we had to give him a lot of advance notice and keep reminding him of the upcoming event. And we are talking about going to the circus, vacation, Disney World. But I never quite understood why the heck Sandusky had these kids spending the night at his house. There was no good reason for that. </p>
<p>The situation on a father molesting a child in a family is a whole different situation. The problem there is that some of these women had no good solution to the problem. You can’t just kick out your own kid. Dottie could have simply said, no more kids in the house because I don’t like the activiites that may be happening here or be perceived as such. You can kick out a kid who has a home elsewhere. The family molestation situations, which are sadly many, as this sort of abuse starts at home are not cases usually where someone openly goes and rapes the kid with the other parent lying there fully aware it is happening. They are a whole other issue that still had not been resolvable when it is a problem as old as time. </p>
<p>I also never understood that Second Mile Charity either. A big organization that needs to be scrutinized is the Big Brothers and SIsters. Just too much opportunity for abuse there. And what about private music lessons and tutoring? All have to be done in the open, no enclosed spaces and one to one. IT’s no accident that a lot of seductions occur in a psychiatrist/psychologist’s office.But, it seems to me, that one needs to safeguard children so that one on one time with a adult is always suspect and discouraged, if not labeled as outright inappropriate. That’s what the perverts have done to our society.</p>
<p>“f he was sick he would have been begging these young men for forgiveness…”</p>
<p>That’s pretty close to what he did in 1998, with the kid’s mother. About which the criminal scum, beginning with JoePa, knew.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that these boys were usually in troubled states and homes from the onset. But even a mother who is not fully capable of caring for her child does care about him and when she felt something was off, tried to intervene. That Sandusky is a serial pediophile really does not bode well at all for those other 5 that he and his wife adopted. Not to mention the hundreds, maybe thousands of kid that Sandusky had around him.</p>
<p>I wish someone would speak up about exactly what happened that caused his departure from Penn State. I suspect something came to light that made it clear that he was a pervert and PSU could not afford to have him around. That he was permitted to head a charitable foundation for CHILDREN, in light of such suspicions, boggles my mind. He should have been strong armed at that point, if there was insufficient evidence to out right accuse him, to stay far away from children. I would have directly told those in a foundation that the guy was suspected to have these tendencies and for HIS own protection as well as for the children and for the foundation itself, that he has to stay an arm’s length away form children and never, ever alone. Once that bell is rung for even a suspicion, even if you are innocent, that is the cross you have to bear–you cannot go around children without someone with you and without good reason… You have to tread carefully because you have a strike, justified, true or not against you. After all of this that seems to be the only way to go.</p>
<p>I am interested in what all of you feel should be done about these situations. DonnaL, you in particular, having gone to a school that has recently been revealed to having these issues. What to do today to safeguard?</p>
<p>I think one simple thing we can all do in any dealings with children, is to respect them as human beings. don’t minimize their feelings, don’t ignore what their behavior is saying.</p>
<p>Behavior you may see in a child or adolescent;</p>
<p>[Warning</a> Signs in Children and Adolescents of Possible Child Sexual Abuse | Stop It Now](<a href=“http://www.stopitnow.org/warning_signs_child_behavior]Warning”>Tip Sheet: Warning Signs of Possible Sexual Abuse In A Child's Behaviors | Stop It Now)
Has nightmares or other sleep problems without an explanation
Seems distracted or distant at odd times
Has a sudden change in eating habits
Refuses to eat
Loses or drastically increases appetite
Has trouble swallowing.
Sudden mood swings: rage, fear, insecurity or withdrawal
Leaves “clues” that seem likely to provoke a discussion about sexual issues
Writes, draws, plays or dreams of sexual or frightening images
Develops new or unusual fear of certain people or places
Refuses to talk about a secret shared with an adult or older child
Talks about a new older friend
Suddenly has money, toys or other gifts without reason
Thinks of self or body as repulsive, dirty or bad
Exhibits adult-like sexual behaviors, language and knowledge
Signs more typical of younger children
An older child behaving like a younger child (such as bed-wetting or thumb sucking)
Has new words for private body parts
Resists removing clothes when appropriate times (bath, bed, toileting, diapering)
Asks other children to behave sexually or play sexual games
Mimics adult-like sexual behaviors with toys or stuffed animal
Wetting and soiling accidents unrelated to toilet training
Signs more typical in adolescents
Self-injury (cutting, burning)
Inadequate personal hygiene
Drug and alcohol abuse
Sexual promiscuity
Running away from home
Depression, anxiety
Suicide attempts
Fear of intimacy or closeness
Compulsive eating or dieting
Physical warning signs</p>
<p>Physical signs of sexual abuse are rare. If you see these signs, bring your child to a doctor. Your doctor can help you understand what may be happening and test for sexually transmitted diseases.</p>
<p>Pain, discoloration, bleeding or discharges in genitals, anus or mouth
Persistent or recurring pain during urination and bowel movements
Wetting and soiling accidents unrelated to toilet training</p>
<p>Behaviors to Watch for When Adults Are With Children
<a href=“http://www.stopitnow.org/files/tip_sheet_behaviors_to_watch_for.pdf[/url]”>http://www.stopitnow.org/files/tip_sheet_behaviors_to_watch_for.pdf</a></p>
<p>mini—Sandusky played to the mother’s sympathy as any good sociopath will do. “During the course of the conversation, Mr. Sandusky made the statement, ‘I wish I could get forgiveness, I know I won’t get it from you. I wish I were dead,’” Schreffler testified.</p>
<p>the hallmark of a sociopath is they do something wrong and they manipulate you to feel sorry for them.</p>
<p>The Freeh report is expected to come out mid-July. The abuse survivors will probably wait until then to organize the civil suits against the University administrators. Keep in mind that what can legally be charged and then proven is usually very different than what the court of public opinion desires or demands. PSU will – appropriately — pay a terrible price for administrative negligence and criminal inaction. The report is going to dismantle PSU admin and policy as we know it. That’s okay.</p>
<p>That being said, those of you who have your pitchforks out, keep in mind that there are thousands of PSU employees and hundreds of thousands of students and alum who are completely blameless. They are neither in collusion with those in power, nor are they accessories to the crime simply because they are employed by or attend PSU. Maybe in a perfect world we could say “Oh, I don’t like what happened so as a statement of principal I will quit my associate professorship/staff assistant job/grad assistant position and sell apples on the street to support my family” but what does that change? I think that instead, as a statement of principal, those people donated millions to charity, talked to their own departments about what they would do, called for accountability, and prayed S. would be found guilty. I don’t know what else you’d have them do. </p>
<p>We practice fire drills, even though it’s obvious if your house/school is on fire, you’d get out. Practicing what to do in the event of abuse allegations should have always been a mandatory part of every workplace that encounters children. Hopefully now the world can see why, and CEOs are making plans. If your company isn’t, and you work with children, find out why not. If it is, make sure YOU know what action to take. A child could be depending on you.</p>
<p>I am REALLY puzzled. Is it really possible for Sandusky’s wife truly NOT to have any inkling all these years? This is not a leading question. I would love to hear from folks with experience in this area (e.g., psychologist, law enforcement, student affairs, etc) whether this is common or possible.</p>
<p>“I don’t believe Dottie Sandusky knew what her husband was doing to those boys. I cannot believe that she was in bed aware that her SO was molesting children. That she could have stopped in her home, and I cannot believe anyone would let something like that happen.”</p>
<p>In theory, I cannot believe that Sandusky would do what he did. Yet he did it. So as inconceivable as it seems, it may well be the case that Dottie is knew or strongly suspected what was going on yet turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to screams of the boys in her basement.</p>
<p>“Father91, who are the PSU defenders? I haven’t read about anyone defending PSU or Sandusky.”</p>
<p>Not many have defended Sandusky, but lots of people on this thread have defended Penn State. The whole “We Are Penn State! We Are Penn State!!” mentality doesn’t permit them to believe that the school and/or JoePa could also be at fault here.</p>
<p>First, he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. Whether we are comfortable saying he is sick or not, the fact is, that he IS sick. Pedophilia is a compulsion that cannot be controlled. Pedophiles convince themselves that they are helping the child, loving the child, teaching the child. Most pedophiles were abused as children. Calling him sick is not letting him off the hook at all. IMO, though, the people around him who turned the other way and failed to intervene are even more responsible than Sandusky because, we can presume, they are/were not driven by the same compulsions as S. Their failure to act, IMO, is the definition of evil.</p>
<p>Cptofthehouse, you are all over the place.
</p>
<p>A charge is not a conviction. Are you saying that someone who is charged with abuse should never be allowed around children again? What if the charges are false? And if they are true, it is okay for them to be around their own children?
I understand your concern about charging someone falsely. I have seen it happen and it is devastating. However, those of us who work with children, must always err on the side of the child. An accusation would launch an investigation. That investigation would, hopefully, determine if the charge are founded or unfounded. It is not the job of the lay person tho determine if someone is guilty or innocent and it is not our job to interrogate the child to determine if there are grounds for an investigation.</p>
<p>What would make an adult suspect that a child has been abused? Well, I’m not an expert but you have mentioned some of the red flags. Others are acting out sexual acts that the child should not know about. hyperssexual behavior in a child is a warning sign. Acting out sex acts with other children is also a red flag (usually in younger children). Here is a link that you might find helpful.
[Child</a> Sexual Abuse: Intervention and Treatment Issues: Indicators Of Child Sexual Abuse](<a href=“http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/sexabuse/sexabusec.cfm]Child”>http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/sexabuse/sexabusec.cfm)</p>
<p>“mini—Sandusky played to the mother’s sympathy as any good sociopath will do. “During the course of the conversation, Mr. Sandusky made the statement, ‘I wish I could get forgiveness, I know I won’t get it from you. I wish I were dead,’” Schreffler testified.”</p>
<p>So…if he begs for forgiveness, he is sick. If he begs for forgiveness, he is a sociopath. (I don’t see those as contradictory.)</p>
<p>What’s JoePa’s excuse? He is the one (should he be alive) that should be begging for forgiveness. But he was too busy “protecting his investment” (rather than his players or the kids).</p>
<p>This will probably come off as a strange comment, but here goes…Pediphiles are committed to what they are doing. I think they work very hard to convince the kids they abuse that they are showing love to them and they try to convince the kids that what they are doing is loving. Kids, though they may feel it is wrong, are told over and over by the abuser that the relations are good. The children may have so many other issues that it isn’t until later they figure out it was all very wrong. These Pediphiles seek out kids in bad homes ( not kids with parents like all of us, of course) or with other issues. They are crafty.</p>
<p>Also, it has been in fairly recent history that this type of abuse has come to the surface in the press. It was going on all along, but whoever heard of it in the 70s?</p>
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<p>What else I’d have them do is publicly repudiate the child abuse-enabling Church of PSU Football and the cult of its founding saint, Joe Paterno. </p>
<p>It would be nice to get a public admission that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to get the identity and reputation of an otherwise fine academic institution all wrapped up in its football team to the degree that it was, and still is. And it was a really bad idea for the school and its boosters to give little or no oversight to the football program, which resulted in those guys putting the welfare of the football program above the welfare of children.</p>
<p>Then, if the Penn State people are really interested in showing that they’ve cleaned up the mess and things will be different going forward, I’d have them demote the football program to club sport status for the next 10 or 20 years. That would show they really mean it. </p>
<p>Of course there is a snowball’s chance in hell of any of this actually happening. There is too much money to be made from football. Gotta protect the cash flow.</p>