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<p>Ouch.</p>
<p>I was merely trying to give you another perspective, not asking for your approval.</p>
<p>Say what you want about me, but I won’t be posting on this thread anymore. I’m not interested in fighting.</p>
<p>stats21 and mommaj, great posts.</p>
<p>So some feel that the shock of finding out that Paterno was a bum deserves a respectable time for grievance, a time in which no disgust or outrage should be felt. Good lord, that goes so far to show how insidious the PSU culture is. I cannot believe that anyone can justifiably cite shock and grievance as a normal reaction to this whole mess, a reaction that overshadows disgust and outrage, even for one second.</p>
<p>myturnnow – I understand your point. Paterno’s wife has a right to grieve.</p>
<p>Rinaldi, for he uninitiated is ESPN’s official Tiger Woods batting practice pitcher. Think (“reverentially hushed tones”): “Tiger, after all you have been through, after everything that has happened in your life, where can you possibly summon the super human courage to feather a nine iron to a back left pin location.” That’s Tom Rinaldi.</p>
<p>Not to be confused with Andy North who is Girl Number 20, if you know what I mean (and you do, so stop pretending that you don’t).</p>
<p>Rinaldi should have asked Jay had it been his kid (Joe’s grandson) pinned against that shower wall would Joe have done more. There is no good answer to that question. As such, the Paternos should start contemplating the horror that occurred and stop talking to the press.</p>
<p>I’m still in shock that this could happen at a major university. My dad is involved at high levels with the UT-Austin men’s athletic program. He has worked for years with Mack Brown, AD DeLoss Dodds, UT’s president Bill Powers, etc. He is so impressed with their integrity and judgment. I know you should never say “never,” but even knowing how much UT football means to my dad and the others, I don’t think they would have let this happen.</p>
<p>Time to process the betrayal? For a football coach? Really?<br>
He facilitated the activities of a child rapist.</p>
<p>Why do people want his legacy to reflect this? Because no matter what good he did, allowing and coddling a child molester trumps all the good he did. Period.</p>
<p>There are many people who have good sides but who do horrendous things. Do we go, well, gee he built a library so he should be given a freebie? He knew. For over a decade. He saw Sandusky with little boys over and over and over and over again. Yet he publicly lauded Sandusky.</p>
<p>While mcqueary should also answer to his lack of action, paterno and the rest financially, nd thru the football program granted Sandusky a free pass to molest dozens, and I am sure it was more then those just at trial, dozens of little boys. Rape them. Sodomize them. And mentally and physically damage them. And pateno and his posse let it all go on to save the image of Penn state.</p>
<p>Shame shame shame</p>
<p>A lot of things need to be done about this horror. However, it is when those are charged with the most heinous of crimEvenes, when the evidence is the most certain, that we all have to be vigilant about making sure that are legal system is still working the way it should.</p>
<p>For those that feel that JoePa’s life should be viewed as a whole, his failings and his accomplishments…I totally agree! When you think about all of those wins, the football program, the young athletes he helped, you can not forget the CHILDREN he was willing to toss aside to be ignored, abused, and raped as collateral damage to reach his goals. Every win should be tainted with an abused child he could have saved but chose not to because his football program was more important. His players on the field were more important then the children being raped in the locker room showers. Yes, the two sides can not be separated. I think it shows his true character, and it’s immoral and abhorrent.</p>
<p>actually my point was that when faced with this, one can and should choose the truth and hold all accountable, and not buy into denial. one can make a definitive decision and still grieve as one may need to.</p>
<p>Just watched that Jay Paterno interview, imho, he is utterly clueless about the severity of the crimes, and refuses to see his father’s collusion. Stated we wish there were signs that Joe could have seen??? And then he used the word small, at the end to describe this as a small chapter in Joe’s life, and was corrected. He was raised by an arrogant man and it is very evident. Who knows what Jay himself knew. Honestly, I felt that he called his father Joe Paterno, repeatedly, in part because if he used, “my Dad” he might have actually felt an emotion.</p>
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<p>Accomplishments? The value of the accomplishment of winning more than 400 football games and generating all that razzle-dazzle school spirit falls to pretty close to zero when weighed against the plight of at least ten little boys who were abused for years under the color and protection of the Penn State football program. Abuse that was enabled by Paterno.</p>
<p>Think for a few minutes about the depth of suffering of those ten boys and then tell us again about Paterno’s great “accomplishments.”</p>
<p>I think we need compassion for all the victims, most of all the abused children and their families, the early reporters whose claims were not heard-- all of them.</p>
<p>But also some compassion for those who believed Mr. Paterno to be a person he turned out not to be. They need time time to adjust to a new reality.</p>
<p>To me this whole situation is unbelievable</p>
<p>How adults can ignore the kids and focus on the organization’s reputation … so similar to the Catholic church … and so unbelievable</p>
<p>I’m having a hard time of thinking of anyone who has fallen as far and as fast as Joe Paterno. Last fall he was considered one of the all time great coaches who set the example of how to run a program … and now he is part of probably the worst incident in the history of sports in the US and his rep it totally shot. Can anyone else think of anyone else whose public perception dropped so far in 8 months?</p>
<p>I also find harsh criticism of the trustees somewhat strange. Many years ago I became the treasurer of a small non-profit and discovered the previous treasurer had neglected a ton of legal responsibilities … in the end we created a process where I submitted a signed form every month verifying I had peformed the duties I was supposed to do. In response to the PSU mess I can imagine trustee boards across the country developing something similar … asking presidents, deans, etc … if they have done anything illegal, if they have informed the board of everything that might put the school at risk, etc … something to both leave no room for hiding situations without blatantly lying (and to CYA of the board) … it’s a sad state when we need legal proof we asked people to do the job they should know they should do.</p>
<p>3togo</p>
<p>(PS - I’ve been thinking about what the penalties should/could be … I think PSU should vacate all victories in the 14 years that officials had knowledge and did not act on the pedophile on campus. This would accomplish a couple goals … 1) it would would lower PSU football and Joe P on any list of all-time NCAA win lists … 2) more importantly, it would send the signal the school understands other things are more important than football and football victories achieved at the expense of innocent victims can not allowed, counted, or in anyway accepted. (and if they did this it makes me feel the NCAA would not have to come down nearly as hard)).</p>
<p>I don’t know what these “accomplishments” of Joe Paterno’s are that everyone keeps talking about. Winning football games? Who gives a crap, it’s just a game. Should we start praising people who coach others on how to play World of Warcraft really well too? Oh, those noble heroes, engendering a sense of accomplishment in young men as they slay orcs! Giving them the immeasurable benefit of developing quick hand-to-eye coordination! Working as a TEAM to bring down the boss monster, how noble! Not only that, but those quick typing and mouse skills will come in so handy later in life!</p>
<p>Anyway, if one good thing comes out of this, I hope it will be more people realizing that a child molester, sexual abuser, or other variety of bad egg doesn’t necessarily look seedy, with a five o’ clock shadow and a trenchcoat. They can look cleanshaven, they can be rich, they can hold a respected position in society. Money can’t buy morals.</p>
<p>The history of the world is a story of flawed, powerful men. For some, history judges the good they accomplished to outweigh the bad; in others, the bad outweighs any good. (Hopefully, being an accomplished football coach does not give one the historical stature of kings, dictators, presidents and guys from the Old Testament.)</p>
<p>I was on the board of a nonprofit where the president was demonstrating poor judgment in relation to teens, (not abuse, more about their privacy) we tried to reel her in, hold her accountable, ask questions etc. When we saw we could not influence her we were forced to take a stand. We did not want her to have the power to do any harm. Not the same situation, clearly, but it is not that hard to do the right thing. It’s usually a simple decision, while it may be complex to carry out, it is doable.</p>
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I don’t mean to sound insensitive here, but this? I don’t get it at all…first of all, I wouldn’t call him Mr. Paterno. That sounds like respect. Secondly, time to adjust a new reality? Again, I must say all that shows is just how insidious the football culture is at PSU.</p>
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<p>Okay, I’ll allow them time to adjust. But how many are adjusting to the new reality and how many are stubbornly defending against it? If the denizens of sports talk shows are any indication there are plenty of Paterno idolators out there who still fiercely believe that “JoePa” was a saint who did no wrong, who is completely innocent and is just being horribly scapegoated. I couldn’t believe some of the callers I was hearing on ESPN2 this morning. There was no “adjusting” underway with these guys. I’m still shaking my head over the degree of denial these people continue to display.</p>
<p>Penn State could survive without the football team. For the in-state residents who want to go to a school where there are “reputable” football programs, they could still go to Pitt or Temple. New York State schools do just fine without the big football programs. Penn State could forge a new identity without it.</p>
<p>Well, I must say any misgivings I ever had that none of my kids went to a college that had a good football team are gone. Out of the colleges my kids attended, I guess the best football program was at Maryland, but I’m sure my kid never even knew the name of the coach. I’d hate to have to nurse any of them through the heartbreak of the football coach doing something wrong.</p>
<p>Yes, accomplishments. Do I care what they are? Absolutely not. I know only that he had the rep of being a great college football coach. The specifics, I’'ve never bothered to check,and doubt I ever will. But, yes, accomplishments. WHich is why the discussion is about him instead of the many others so involved. He had accomplished quite a bit. ANd he has also accomplished some horrible things now. All part of the history, that should be viewed side by side. </p>
<p>I could not care less about the Nittany Lion fans being deprived of their football, and it’s just too bad for the football team. Doesn’t bother me an instant, and as big as Penn State is in football, I’ll be willing to bet more people do NOT care about whether Penn State has a team or not. The reality is, however, that this football team generates a lot of money for Penn State, and is supposedly one of the reasons that alumni support is as high as it is. You want to compensate those victims, make changes? It’s all going to cost money. Sad to say, I don’t think you will get as much money out of Penn State people by passing the hat for the victims after you close down the football, as you will just taking the money that the program brings in and so directing it. Maybe I am wrong, but… that is my call.</p>
<p>So you close down the football which is a big revenue maker. OOS apps are probably going to go down from this. You think students and alums are going to give the school the money they were paying to go to the games and other crap that has to do with the game, right? Oh, and the state of PA has been chiseling away at the budget by cutting what it gives to its universities, including Penn State. Not to mention, that it currently has the one of the highest, if not highest state tuitions for instaters in the country. So where is all the recompense going to come from to the victims, and there will be more? Where is the money for the programs going to come from, as well? Better take the money.</p>
<p>What I don’t get, Mini, is why was Paterno wanting to give Sandusky money and privileges? Yes, I see the flow of money, but it’s going the wrong way. What’s going on here that he just didn’t say, “too bad, so sad, no job for you here. and good luck finding another job” to Sandusky? I don’t get that at all. What am I missing here?</p>
<p>FlyMeToTheMoon, I can understand that for fervent long-time fans, this is difficult to wrap the brain around. </p>
<p>Please remember: Paterno didn’t just fail to help these children, which would be bad enough. He actively obstructed when others were belatedly ready to do something. His hunger for adulation – undeserved, as we now know --gave rise to the situation which ruined innocent lives forever. He presented himself to his fans as a paragon of moral virture, at the very time he was empowering a heinous predator. There’s nothing to admire about any of that. So I hope that, with time, you will be able to move beyond annoyance and disappointment, and really get the outrage that so many feel.</p>
<p>I do not hate Penn State; before this, I had a vaguely positive impression of Paterno and the program. But I do know evil when I see it.</p>