<p>This is a pretty good teaching moment if you have kids who tend to think of people in terms of black and white/all bad or all good. Good time to discuss that we all have faults and that all of our friends and colleagues have faults…good time to discuss what they may need to accept and learn to live with in a spouse or friend or colleague and what crosses the line and requires further action, sometimes dramatic action. What if your best friend shoplifted a candy bar? or cheated on a test? or left the scene of an accident? or raped a child?</p>
<p>Puh, Mini, I give a zero, no, a minus, for any sympathies for those who want their football fixes. Too bad if there are no schools in all of PA with football. No loss, IMO. That isn’t even on my list of consideration. Toooo Baaad. But the money that Penn State football brings in will be lost too. THe university balance sheet is not gonna look as flush without football on it. Unless that is all a fake too and the school was supporting the program, rather than the other way around. Cut the program for 5 years and see what that does for school revenues. If I were an attorney for those kids, seeking monetary damages, I would want that football program in place, with its flow of money going directly to those vicitimized by that system. When damages are assessed for payment to those kids and their kids, you don’t want a school with a depleted bank account and few donations.</p>
<p>The trustees, and all those involved, should be fired. So should most if not all of the athletic staff, including those janitors. Everyone involved in this mess should be cleaned out and fresh blood from outside of State College and with NO Penn state affiliation be brought in. From what I have seen of the way things work there, the nepotism reeks. </p>
<p>Yes, a lot of people will be hurt, and that is the consequence when something like this happens and a system lets it happen. A lot of innocent people, just like those poor kids.</p>
<p>I used to think Penn State football was a big deal until I moved to SEC territory. Penn State is minor league now. Needs to shut it down for a few years.</p>
<p>“But the money that Penn State football brings in will be lost too. THe university balance sheet is not gonna look as flush without football on it.”</p>
<p>The balance sheet was balanced on the backs of sodomized children, and the people that promoted, paid, provided facilities, opportunities, and reputation for the sodomizer.</p>
<p>“What I don’t get, Mini, is why was Paterno wanting to give Sandusky money and privileges? Yes, I see the flow of money, but it’s going the wrong way. What’s going on here that he just didn’t say, “too bad, so sad, no job for you here. and good luck finding another job” to Sandusky? I don’t get that at all. What am I missing here?”</p>
<p>I gave you my speculation about 500 posts back, before the Freeh Report. I find much of that speculation confirmed. I think there is still much more to the story, and it goes back well before 1998. (and it may also go to the current Governor)</p>
<p>I agree mini. If they reported Sandusky in 2001 and legal proceedings occurred perhaps other issues related to Paterno’s reign would have come to light, maybe his role would have been weakened, and impacted the overall outcome of PSU football. The wins were on these boys’ backs, literally.</p>
<p>[Good</a> riddance, Joe Paterno | Fox News](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/13/good-riddance-joe-paterno/]Good”>Good riddance, Joe Paterno | Fox News)</p>
<p>“Mr. Paterno taught some young men how to play a game. *And he taught millions how not to be a man.”</p>
<p>Maybe this statement engraved on a very large plaque should be added to the base of the infamous Paterno statue.</p>
<p>Yes, it was. And its gonna have to pay. You want to cut out a substantial source of the income? Fire all those involved or even there, and keep the program. Or how about asking the victims, the ones who were sodomized what they think should be done? </p>
<p>As I’ve said a number of times, I could care less about the football. Get rid of the football team and I won’t miss it a bit, and neither will most people other than those so crazed that they will pay for it. Get rid of the football, get rid of those payments. They done wrong, so they have to pay. Not just for the victims but for putting in a system that will not let this ever happen again. A good part of that is getting rid of those who are so interconnected there, and yes, innocent people will be hurt, but that will send the message loud and clear that those who let these things happen suffer consequences along with those who may be innocent.</p>
<p>I have no issues or problems about the innocent football fans, players, students suffering either, The problem is that the result of that is less resources available to make this right. Being a state institution, it’s not as though the school has huge reserves that it can use to fix this. I am already picturing the very strapped state of PA that gives so little to education (look at its ranking in that area) making sure that their losses are minimized. When the hullabaloo of indiginition is done, and the hard numbers drawn, they are going to be based on what is available, and I have a feeling that without football for 4-5 years, it’s going to be a lot less. See how much that deep pocketed football alum will contribute to those sodomized kids and for policies to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Without the games, that purse is clicking shut tight.</p>
<p>THE BAFFLING CASE OF DA RAY GRICAR
makes for an interesting twist. The DA who dropped the investigation in 1998 </p>
<p>[The</a> Baffling Case of DA Ray Gricar | American Free Press](<a href=“The Baffling Case of DA Ray Gricar – American Free Press”>The Baffling Case of DA Ray Gricar – American Free Press)</p>
<p>Both Sandusky and Paterno were at Penn State in 1968. The year of the unsolved murder of a student.</p>
<p>My son refused to look at any school with Div 1 sports. Didn’t want the school spirit and identity to be connected to big sports. I know sports are way important to some people and have a positive influence on their lives and I know this is not just about sports. Pedophiles can be anywhere. But it is about money and power and how they can corrupt. As a psychologist who has worked with a lot of survivors, it makes my heart hurt to think of what happened to these kids. The pain will never go away, but the Sandusky conviction and the Freeh report will be a start toward healing. Someone finally listened and believed them and expressed horror and outrage.</p>
<p>If I understand mini’s money theory correctly, Sandusky was getting hush money from Paterno and/or the school to keep quiet and allow him to continue abusing kids rather than have a big scandal that would adversely affect Paterno, Penn State, and the football program. Do I have it right?</p>
<p>Okay, but the thing that doesn’t add up is that there is no real threat that Sandusky would blow the whistle because he’d be primarily blowing it on himself. He would be turning himself in for committing a lot a major felonies. Sandusky would have a lot more to lose by the scandal blow-up than Paterno would, as confirmed by the long prison sentence he has now received. Thus he had no real leverage over Joe and the school.</p>
<p>I don’t think Sandusky was holding them captive. Alternately, I think they perceived Sandusky as a weird guy, and knew he had these proclivities, but in thier minds they minimized these issues. Which you can do when you NEVER think about the victims. </p>
<p>I believe they felt bad for Sandusky, (sick as that is) and wanted him to go, but wanted to help the poor ol guy out. Very much like the Catholic Church shuffling around their pedophile priests to different assignments. That’s why when Jerry asked for access to the gym they agreed. I can imagine them thinking, we don’t want to insult the poor guy and let him think we actually suspect he’s abusing children. nah, let’s just let him go on to his new passion, helping boys through the Second Mile.</p>
<p>“Okay, but the thing that doesn’t add up is that there is no real threat that Sandusky would blow the whistle because he’d be primarily blowing it on himself.”</p>
<p>But if caught - the question is whether he’d rat on Paterno, with a 30-year relationship to back it up. Alternatively, Paterno and/or others threatened to rat him out (1998), and he turned the tables and said he’d bring them down with him. Seeing how effective that was, it’s just a very, very small step further to start making his demands (starting with the $168,000 payout, the Professor Emeritus status, the access to the locker-room, payment to attend the games with his little boys as part of “recruiting expenses”, money to him funneled through Second Mile, kickbacks through the business dealings, etc.) </p>
<p>They need to follow the money. (and they probably need to investigate the Governor for his handling of the case when he was Attorney General).</p>
<p>WOW! 5700 posts discussing the ins and outs, the pros and cons, the value of saving the legacy and program, and possible spins on a group of individuals who for over at least a decade institutionalized the molestation of young men. I’m going to ask what at least IMO is the over-riding pertinent question of the day…</p>
<p>How in the blazes did the US system of higher education become so associated with and beholden too sports. How would this discussion go if we replaced the position of (bow head and genuflect with reverence) Football coach with say…University Chancellor, Governor of the State, head of the unified school district…or…hey let’s go there…Catholic Cardinal(remember, it’s about the $$$'s). Would there even be a single post attempting to support and explain this behavior and situation. Or, as I strongly suspect, there would be an electronic lynching of all involved.</p>
<p>Try explaining this situation to a European or South American and you’ll get the same blank look as when trying to explain our ‘right to bear arms’ laws. Yes, our well known Universities have these sports teams, they are revered and it’s members are given numerous perks and assistance not available to those simply there to study. Oh, and most of our citizens couldn’t tell you who from said University received a noble prize, who (with the exception of Google and Facebook) brought forth the most influential innovations…who excelled at the academics.</p>
<p>I fully expect an electronic whipping for suggesting this…but …let’s just separate the two activities, They lost any and all reasonable association when College sports went pro. (and THAT is a spin for a whole other thread)</p>
<p>What does it say about us as a society if our most honored, recognized and vaulted hero’ IN HIGHER EDUCATION are sports ‘stars’?</p>
<p>Ivies Ivy’s know better.</p>
<p>I don’t get it. There is some implication that Paterno was financially involved with some others at Second Mile on some big money investments, and if Sandusky were sacked, it would all go down the drain and Paterno would not make those millions.</p>
<p>By sacked, I mean totally thrown out of the picture, not just fired as coach which Sandusky basically was. </p>
<p>I don’t understand a lot of this regarding Second Mile. My understanding is that it was a charity soliciting donations that Paternom, Penn state alumni, the university and others involved in the program were supporting. Money still flowing the wrong way, for me to get why Paterno just didn’t tell Sandusky to “get out of Dodge”</p>
<p>Getting payment from the Paterno estate is going to be difficult if not impossible, given "bad boy’ provisions in pension plans that make it impossible to punish someone by taking such monies, and with Paterno being dead, the “innocent spouse” situation will be there. Also, Paterno was not indicted by the Grand Jury
either
The university is really where the hit will be made the hardest. Sandusky, too, but I don’t think what he has is going to be anywhere near what the attorneys for these men are going for. It’s deep pockets they want, and it has to be the university and if the football program brings the U, a lot of the money,…well, kill the goose and make do with what eggs happen to be there. That’s the situation as I see it.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>No, there would not. As I said hundreds of posts back, if Sandusky had been caught raping boys in an academic setting instead of a glorious athletic one he would have been arrested so fast that he would not have had time to pull his pants back up.</p>
<p>The very term “ivy league” is describing its sports league. The lowest stats belong to the athletes of those schools in their big time sports, and yes, I’ve seen those numbers. </p>
<p>Bear in mind that Paterno was very quickly fired when this all came to brew. And there is a cry to close down the football program, not the university. There are a lot people, including the entire board of trustees that should be ousted along with some others who well knew what was happening and supported or even out and out said to cover it up, not report it. Those heads should all be rolling. Spanier’s particularly. </p>
<p>I find it difficult to believe that Sandusky was so pivotal and important in all of these deals that he had to be tolerated. If so, why the heck was he fired as coach and not promised a possibility as Paterno’s successor? </p>
<p>I have to believe that these men did not really believe these kids were being raped. That they felt that Sandusky crossed the line of personal boundaries, but that they could not face the fact that he was sodomizing the kids. That they refused to believe it and that was their big mistake, something that they and the school are going to have to make retribution for, and fix the system so that it does not happen again there, and they all should be fired. Few jobs in State College, so they’ll have to move out of there and maybe Penn State will be rid of some of this very unhealthy inbreeding going on there, especially in the university hierarchy.</p>
<p>
. Yes, but it is not the DEFINING characteristic of these vaulted institutions…HYPM (S is the exception)</p>
<p>Sure, I feel the victims deserve monetary compensation. But I think it’s even more important to dismantle the football system which was so overly loved, cherished, and idolized, to the point that “football ruled the school”. Even if you get rid of everyone indicted in the Freeah report, can you get rid of the culture surrounding football at Penn State, the “rah-rah football is everything” attitude while the players are still hitting the field? I am dubious. I am dubious because of the reactions I’ve seen from students and staff as this unfolded. The very fact that students rioted when Paterno was forced out, the very fact that Saint Paterno was so idolized that people now they have to “mourn” and “grieve” shows that something is very, very wrong. I think the entire football program has to be cut out of Penn State, like a cancer.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think they just didn’t care. They looked at their reputations and the money rolling in on the one hand and they balanced it against the sexual assault of some poor kids from broken families and they chose the money and prestige. Unfortunately I don’t think this kind of attitude is that uncommon. This was the same reason the Catholic Church had problems and the reason that plenty more places we don’t yet know about have problems.</p>
<p>Part of the justification, I’m sure, is that it’s for “the greater good.” As in, “Sure, kids are being horribly abused, but wouldn’t it be even WORSE if people thought badly of us so we couldn’t HELP and INSPIRE people?” (Answer: No.)</p>
<p>Although this case seems especially bad in that the pain of those poor kids seems to have literally not even crossed the minds of these clowns. Like they weren’t even people to them.</p>
<p>I don’t know, Coureur. There was a similar scandal that made the NYT magazine of sodomists at Horace Mann, one of the top independent high schools in the country. The suicide rate of the class most affected is ridiculously high. Yet, the culture was tolerated. And look at the situation with the Catholic Church. That it is in a sports setting, to me, just is telling that it can happen anywhere. It also is telling that most people did not care about those kids. When it all comes out like it has here and with the Church scandals and lawsuits, we all are horrified and say, what monsters. But as wide spread as some of these abuses were and are, a lot of people let these things happen. It’s important, and a main part of my interest in all of this, to figure out what and where and how these things can be handled. There are laws and procedures out there for institutions to follow, but it is pretty clear that Penn State made little or no effort in even reading much less complying to it. A shocking number of people who should have been well versed in those laws, didn’t know they existed.</p>