Feel free to recommend to the NCAA that they inflict recruiting and/or bowl limitations in accordance to the scope of his recruiting, and/or revoke wins associated with players that Sandusky recruited. I am not sure how much should be done, but I am not opposed to taking back the benefits of that recruiting, whatever it was.</p>
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I don’t recall PSU as having a tremendous ongoing relationship with Second Mile, but if you can quantify or at least more precisely specify that benefit I am sure that there could be an approprite penalty devised.</p>
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Where did this come from? How have I benefited from the the football team, other than light TV entertainment? It certainly did not help recruit me to the university I grew up a few miles from, and certainly did not contribute to my education as an engineer.</p>
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Sure, if every Catholic is going to be required to mention the failings of their church with every introduction, if every Republican registration card mentions Watergate, if every Democratic registration card mentions Lewinsky, if every German over the age of 70 has to introduce themselves as being part of the culture that created and supported Hitler, etc, etc.</p>
<p>What organizations do you belong to, and please show me where YOU carry their failings on your sleeve.</p>
<p>People wonder why I take this personally? Because of comments like this.</p>
I disagree on this one - I think if Curley et al had done what they were supposed to, that the university would taken less damage for having been infiltrated by a molestor than it would have received for prompt and correct action.</p>
More than anyone else, yes. Do I think that they should have sole say? No. There are many things that I am willing to concede for the actual victims that I am unwilling to cede to the media or an anonymous public.</p>
<p>Why, have the victims been saying the team should be killed?</p>
<p>Penn State lost a couple of highly rated recruits this past year after the Sandusky news went public. This is the exact reason why they chose to cover it up. Think about it—if you were a highly prized (young) recruit, would you want to be associated with a school that had a pedophile coach.</p>
<p>"Show me how PSU benefited from enabling Sandusky and I will be more than happy to give up those advantages…</p>
<p>YOU said that YOU were willing to give up the advantages YOU gained from YOUR institution enabling Professor Emeritus Sandusky, and so I’m calling YOU on it.</p>
<p>Has nothing to do with Catholics, or anyone else. It is advantages that YOU have gained, and I’m taking you at your word that you will give them up.</p>
<p>Send me your diploma, and I’ll make a rubber stamp.</p>
<p>Cosmicfish…exactly. That is hindsight…But they did not think it would become public. They did not let the BOT in on the “plan” to ignore the problem. The BOT did not assure all safety measures were in place and being followed. They were told “all is good”, and they believed it.</p>
Recruiting this year has been pretty good, actually, and that is AFTER the cover-up broke. I see no evidence that it would have substantially changed in prior years, either. We may have lost some specific individuals, but the overall quality has been decent.</p>
<p>“Show me how PSU benefited from enabling Sandusky and I will be more than happy to give up those advantages.”</p>
<p>“I think if Curley et al had done what they were supposed to, that the university would taken less damage for having been infiltrated by a molestor than it would have received for prompt and correct action.”</p>
<p>I can’t say exactly how the PSU benefited from keeping silent, but obviously 4 the 4 men involved felt that there was some sort of benefit, or else they would have turned him in, or at least taken some kind of action to make it stop - at least the Catholic Church transferred the priests! Sandusky could have been encouraged to retire… when he did retire, he could have been encouraged to slowly fade into the background. There is no reason why he needed access to the facilites, and the honor of emeritus status, unless PSU benefited in some way.</p>
<p>Freeh suggests to follow the money, and that us just what should happen. Sure, there is a great deal of speculation, but it is possible that Sandusky is part of something even larger at Second Mile (or at PSU). It is also possible that Sandusky know about something even more damning than his behavior, and keeping quiet about him also kept him quiet about whatever he know. Only time will tell.</p>
Ah, ya got me there - I made an offer on an internet forum with the basic assumption that we were talking about in a manner consistent with the rest of the world. I said that I would hold myself to a standard without making the explicit statement that the standard I was referring to was the one that the rest of the world uses. Ya got me.</p>
<p>That having been said, have I not already given up those advantages? The only advantages I received from the football program were in enjoyment - that is already been taken from me. And the advantages from association with a charitable organization? Not sure what they were, no one has ever brought it up before, and I am pretty sure that they have already been nullified by the media, but thanks for your concern.</p>
<p>Again, this is why Penn Staters get defensive, because of attacks like this.</p>
Certainly, but benefit to whom? I have a hard time believing that men would act so callously and yet use those actions to the benefit of an organization rather than themselves. I think the men involved saw personal benefit, and that is why they acted.</p>
<p>I think what’s getting people so worked up is the seemingly obstinate refusal of the powers that be at PSU to take any action on this that suggests accountability. Had they done something as simple as turning down the Bowl invitation, or taking down the statue, I think people would see they are truly repentant.</p>
<p>As it is, they’re coming off as if they’re hoping to ride the whole thing out until it’s forgotten, with no changes. That’s what is frustrating so many. And it’s frustrating because it’s indicative of change in society, where money rules. And this era we are in, where money seems to have rights of its own, lends itself to feelings of helplessness. We are all watching this, and fear that money will once again rule.</p>
Right now at PSU there is a big push to purge all those in the administration who would have reasonably been expected to know about this (admittedly, a good chunk of them are under indictment), as well as toss out the entire Board of Trustees. Unfortunately, identification of the first group will take some time, and the BoT is largely composed of political appointees who are refusing to step down.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, the BoT included one of my favorite high school teachers (an alumni electee), and in this past election I and others voted her out. We are okay with change, we are okay with punishment, we are not okay with a death penalty.</p>
<p>I guess the issue is that, bottom line, these boys were abused for the sake of money and the prestige of the football program. Those involved were plain wrong, cause most likely a clean admission from day one would not have cost PSU anything in the long run. But, the boys were abused for the sake of money and prestige. That’s why so many feel now that the money should be lost and the prestige of the football program should be destroyed. It just seems like the only option that can approach a fairness to the victims.</p>
<p>First I think that yes, they covered it up because Paterno wanted it covered up and had a long history of making sure the football program’s dirty laundry stayed private. He also clearly lacked any empathy for the victims - and quite possibly didn’t really see this as a crime or appreciate what a severe crime it was since Sandusky was his friend. I find this insane given how much publicity the Catholic Church received during this time. How could anyone not know how bad this behavior was? I can only think his (Paterno’s) age contributed since pedophilia has really only been so completely publicly scorned in recent years. In earlier ages it was just hidden and kids weren’t even necessarily believed. I have no idea how common this kind of behavior was in athletics - but Sandusky was clearly way way on the extreme end of the spectrum of abusers. There is also this homophobic aspect which I think was common in football… however child molestation should NOT be confused with consensual sexuality of any type.</p>
<p>Now - what to do? I think the football program should be suspended for as many as five years or so. It really doesn’t matter to me that the individuals involved have been punished… I just think the University and program deserve the most severe penalty possible - and short of permanently shutting the football program down, a multi year suspension seems in order.</p>
<p>I can. I am sure the conversation went like this “The public will rip us apart just like the catholic church. We can’t have that type of negative publicity.”</p>
<p>Oh please. The Penn State defenders on this thread have come up with some really lousy analogies, but this one is the worst yet.</p>
<p>Neither Harvard nor Virginia Tech continued to harbor and enable their respective criminals, after they began committing the crimes, to avoid bad publicity for the football team as Penn State willingly did - for 14 years! In the case of Harvard the Unabomber didn’t start making bombs until many years after he left Harvard (and later left Michigan and then Berkeley) and became hermit in the woods. Cho’s murderous rampage began and ended all on a single day.</p>
<p>You are really desperately grasping if you are citing these as precedents for now letting Penn State off the hook for looking the other way and allowing Sandusky the means and a venue to continue his terrible crimes.</p>
<p>I said a similar thing last night. I hope that there is someone in leadeship that can get the BOD over the hump and help them understand WHY they need to step down (including the governor).</p>
<p>This is the type of change that needs to occur that would be meaningful in a way that befits the crime. Oh and perhaps figure out what do to with the statue and strip Sandusky of any honorary titles. And this is also probably the reason the NCAA is sitting back and waiting to make a move or not make a move…to see if PSU can clean up the administration and athletic department.</p>