Penn State Sandusky scandal

[vlines]

<p>Isn’t the gov a BOT member because there is an auto place on the BOT for the Gov?</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>Who knows…at this point everything is open, it would unprecedented for the NCAA to get involved in something like this so it might be unprecedented not to have the governor as an honorary board member. Personally if i were a Pennsylvania resident I’d rather see that than tuition soar, profs get laid off and kids uprooted because a bunch of programs get cut.</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

>>Really? So Harvard created the unibomber, Virginia Poly created Seung-Hui Cho, presumably they should also be castigated and economically ruined?<<</p>

<p>Oh please. The Penn State defenders on this thread have come up with some really lousy analogies, but this one is the worst yet.

That is in part because you have taken it out of context. I wrote that in response to:</p>

<p>

As for the community that will suffer if the season is cancelled, well, they helped create the monster, they can deal with the consequences.

My point was that we (the PSU community) did not create Sandusky any more than Harvard created Kaczynski or VT created Cho - we were just unlucky enough for him to pass through our halls (admittedly, for a very long time, but we, the community, did not know what he was).</p>

[noimagination]

<p>

Who knows…at this point everything is open, it would unprecedented for the NCAA to get involved in something like this so it might be unprecedented not to have the governor as an honorary board member. Personally if i were a Pennsylvania resident I’d rather see that than tuition soar, profs get laid off and kids uprooted because a bunch of programs get cut.

Why would professors get laid off?</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

I guess the issue is that, bottom line, these boys were abused for the sake of money and the prestige of the football program. Those involved were plain wrong, cause most likely a clean admission from day one would not have cost PSU anything in the long run. But, the boys were abused for the sake of money and prestige. That’s why so many feel now that the money should be lost and the prestige of the football program should be destroyed. It just seems like the only option that can approach a fairness to the victims.

While I agree that the cover up was done for the sake of money and prestige, I do not think it was done for the sake of the university’s money and prestige. I find it funny that people think that individuals so callous and evil that they will cover up a sex offender will enact that illegal cover up to benefit an organization. They did this to benefit themselves - any benefit that came to the university was secondary in their thinking.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>Death Penalty For Penn State? </p>

<p>[Death</a> Penalty For Penn State? - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>

<p>May Appalled By PSU’s Actions</p>

<p><a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;

<p>“I’ve never been a fan of Mark May for his constant ragging on PSU over the years but can’t disagree with a single thing he said here. Never thought this day would come but there’s no more defending JoePa. Just hope the school itself manages to get through this and regain some respect, with the people responsible prosecuted fully and completely. PSU has an opportunity/responsibility now to rise up and lead the fight against child molestation to at least make some good out of these awful events.” +1</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

Isn’t the gov a BOT member because there is an auto place on the BOT for the Gov?

Yes, he is, and there are a lot of question marks as to how much he knew, and when, and how much of his role in this whole affair was politically calculated. As Attorney General he was responsible for several years of the Sandusky investigation but continued to take campaign contributions from the Second Mile and otherwise engaged in some shady practices.</p>

[noimagination]

<p>

While I agree that the cover up was done for the sake of money and prestige, I do not think it was done for the sake of the university’s money and prestige. I find it funny that people think that individuals so callous and evil that they will cover up a sex offender will enact that illegal cover up to benefit an organization. They did this to benefit themselves - any benefit that came to the university was secondary in their thinking.

So…why were “callous and evil” individuals given the authority to override whatever institutional controls existed and keep this whole affair under wraps?</p>

<p>Do you suspect that these same individuals embezzled money from Penn State?</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

So…why were “callous and evil” individuals given the authority to override whatever institutional controls existed and keep this whole affair under wraps?

For two reasons -</p>

<p>First of all, because they were not recognized as such. Just as heroes are not recognized until they are tested, this kind of selfish, callous evil is not always going to be identified until the individual is pressed. They were pressed for the first real time, and they chose the selfish and evil way out.</p>

<p>Second, because every organization has individuals who have the ability to change the rules to some extent, whether officially or not. This cover up involved the university President, and just as the United States President is given great latitude in many areas, so too was Spanier allowed a lot of leeway.</p>

<p>

Do you suspect that these same individuals embezzled money from Penn State?

I have not heard of any embezzlement charges or evidence, and therefore have no reason to suspect embezzlement. If there is such evidence, please enlighten me.</p>

[mini]

<p>“While I agree that the cover up was done for the sake of money and prestige, I do not think it was done for the sake of the university’s money and prestige.”</p>

<p>Well, I do. I think that’s exactly what Spanier’s involvement was all about.</p>

[FlyMeToTheMoon]

<p>I just finally got around to reading today’s edition of my local paper, and there is an article about the two artists who made the Paterno statue. Embedded in the article is the revelation (at least to me) that Sue Paterno commissioned the statue. It seems strange that the wife, and not some committee, would commission this statue. Maybe the rest of you already knew this, but it just doesn’t sit right with me.</p>

[rcefn]

<p>Of course Penn State benefited by having Sandusky as a coach and recruiter–and if the NCAA follows past practices, every win that he was on staff in either of those positions should be negated–bowl games, championships, etc–every win that Paterno had while Sandusky was working for him should be also be taken away. There should be at least a three year up to five year cessation of the football program, followed by stringent probation with no bowl games or television coverage. The goal should be to get the University back on track by the year 2022–so recruiting should be expected to pick-up in the year 2018.</p>

[Seahorsesrock]

<p>While I know it’s hard to believe and the facts re hard to swallow, but these leaders of psu enabled a pedophile, knowing what Sandusky was. They saw him for decade with little boys, they knew, and for me, once would have been enough, no matter what criminal case was not brought. Especially if I knew that it was not a truly independent investigation. </p>

<p>Not one of these men not one of them came forward, year after year, they stood by Sandusky, they supported his hunting growpund, they gave him shelter to abuse, rape and hurt little boys. They knew. and even if just even one of the suspected, that person should have down spmething. </p>

<p>I don’t think we can separate the motives of the people- they may have thought it was for the greater good, they may have want to cover themselves, they may have wanted to not upset or go against paterno, they may have gotten in so deep they saw no way out, the were weak human beings who didn’t do the right thing, they all, paterno included, in it for themselves either for money, fear, power, old boys network, blackmail or any combination.</p>

<p>To try and attribute reasons is trying to create a distraction from what they did, which was actively support an animal to sp what he wanted, tacitly approving of Sandusky by not reporting him and by taking him and keeping him in their circle.</p>

<p>Why did the church move around and hide rapists? The reasons are unfathomable but they did.</p>

[vlines]

<p>

I do not think it was done for the sake of the university’s money and prestige.

</p>

<p>where do you think the main characters got THEIR money from? Let me answer that for you: The football program/university at PSU. Yes, decisions were made under the guise of “saving PSU and PSU football from public humiliation” by covering this up. And they needed to save PSU and PSU football for their own benefit as well. Football/PSU falls, so does their source of income.</p>

[coureur]

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>I find it funny that people think that individuals so callous and evil that they will cover up a sex offender will enact that illegal cover up to benefit an organization.<<</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>Not so odd at all in cases where people have a strong emotional attachment to the organization - as Penn State people did (and apparently still do) to the football program. We are not talking about any old organization here, like say the PTA or Rotary Club. We are talking about the actual Penn State Football.</p>

<p>When the very identity of the school and the community is so bound up in the football team, its sainted coach, and their continued success, it’s rather less surprising that leaders of that school would allow crimes to continue rather than put all that at risk. </p>

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>They did this to benefit themselves - any benefit that came to the university was secondary in their thinking.<<</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>If the main question were one of possible benefit or loss of benefit to themselves they would have turned Sandusky over to the police as soon as they first heard about it. Had they acted right away to stamp out this horror show they wouldn’t personally have been hurt at all. In fact they would now be seen as heroes, men of principle who saw a wrong and righted it. Yeah, the football program would have gotten a black eye, but they would have done the right thing for the victims - and for themselves. </p>

<p>And given the football-crazed Penn State community, it’s not that surprising that they couldn’t conceive of doing anything that would give the football program a black eye. So that’s why getting rid of the pervasive football-think on campus and in the town looks like the only sure way to prevent recurrence of similar misguided choices.</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

While I know it’s hard to believe and the facts re hard to swallow, but these leaders of psu enabled a pedophile, knowing what Sandusky was. They saw him for decade with little boys, they knew, and for me, once would have been enough, no matter what criminal case was not brought. Especially if I knew that it was not a truly independent investigation. </p>

<p>Not one of these men not one of them came forward, year after year, they stood by Sandusky, they supported his hunting growpund, they gave him shelter to abuse, rape and hurt little boys. They knew. and even if just even one of the suspected, that person should have down spmething.

I don’t think anyone is disputing any of this. You don’t think this horrifies us? We know these people, from the criminals to the witnesses to the victims to the bystanders. McQueary was my high school quarterback, and I probably know some of the victims as well. My wife was a teacher in the State College school district, and has been wondering this whole time if any of the troubled kids she referred to the Second Mile are on the list of victims. We get how bad this is.</p>

[momofthreeboys]

<p>

Football/PSU falls, so does their source of income.

</p>

<p>And so does a whole lotta other stuff that may not be in any way, shape or form be attached to the athletic program. Even if those dollars supported ONLY athletics, many people were impacted in a positive way indirectly with funds that other universities have to scrape from their operating budgets. No matter what happens the belt tightening that is going to need to occur regardless and simply tied to the criminal and civil suits is going to impact far more than the football team and people are completely missing that fact in their zeal to condemn the ‘team.’ If there is zero revenue from the athletic stream then fines and costs have to come from somewhere else. And there is no financial aid fairy as we say over and over on the finaid forums. Every time that point comes up everyone starts yelling about collateral damage…but I suspect many are thinking only of the potential loss of the football team and not the financial aftermath on the university as a whole. But I’m certain that is a major, major topic of conversation in the NCAA as well as within whatever part administration is focusing on the numbers. You can’t rewrite history. That’s over but you can try to lesson the impact on what’s good and was always good in a the zeal for retribution.</p>

[LasMa]

<p>

@cosmicfish

My point was that we (the PSU community) did not create Sandusky any more than Harvard created Kaczynski or VT created Cho - we were just unlucky enough for him to pass through our halls (admittedly, for a very long time, but we, the community, did not know what he was).

</p>

<p>Straw man. No one is saying that Penn State created Sandusky, and I think you know that. And yes, you were unlucky to get him. But there are, unfortunately, pedophiles in all walks of life. The question is, how are they dealt with once discovered? </p>

<p>It is indisputable that Paterno and Spanier knew he was a pedophile at least since 2001. It would have been risky to turn him in – bad publicity for the program. And it would have been risky to keep him – legal liability. They weighed the risks, took several weeks to decide, in fact. In the end, they chose the legal risk over the publicity risk. Why would they have done that? Were they THAT afraid of the reaction of the PSU community?</p>

[cosmicfish]

<p>

where do you think the main characters got THEIR money from?

And who is that not true of? There are relatively few self-employed villains, almost everyone who does something great or vile does so on someone else’s dime. In most cases, the benefit of the employer and the employee are linked, but when pinched self-interest wins out.</p>

[goingmyway]

<p>

I find it funny that people think that individuals so callous and evil that they will cover up a sex offender will enact that illegal cover up to benefit an organization.

No one thinks that.</p>